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  4. Oil -- EVIL; Nucular -- EVILER; Solar -- SAINTLY ... just NIMBY

Oil -- EVIL; Nucular -- EVILER; Solar -- SAINTLY ... just NIMBY

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Back Room
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  • S Stan Shannon

    Oakman wrote:

    It isn't fixable. I cannot imagine any of the major powers giving up their fiat money. As long as they can all print up a couple of trillion without having to back it up with anything except a smile, they will do so. The end will come quickly once it starts, and I see every indication that Obama's and Bernanke's and Little Timmie Geithner's lack of foresight will bring it on soon. 2012 may have prove that Nostradamus was too optimistic.

    In a strange sort of way, it makes me feel better that there is someone out there as pessimistic about all of this as I am. I simply do not see how the center can hold. I have no confidence at all that there are grown ups out there capable of fixing any of this. These fuckers have all out smarted themselves and I don't think any of them have a clue what to do. I wish I had put a lot more money into gold when I had the chance.

    Oakman wrote:

    In another thread we came up with that particular battle being more likely one that Russia and China will wage.

    Yeah, but that was when I was feeling a bit more optimistic ... It is sort of appropriate that encore has been showing 'Road Warrior' alot this month. If I start working out now, maybe I still have a chance to be the Ayotolla of Rock and Rolla... :~

    Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

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    Lost User
    wrote on last edited by
    #25

    Stan Shannon wrote:

    It is sort of appropriate that encore has been showing 'Road Warrior' alot this month. If I start working out now, maybe I still have a chance to be the Ayotolla of Rock and Rolla... Unsure

    Wow thats my all time favorite movie, haven't seen it for years. The gyro copter thing the skinny snake guy gets around on is sitting in a field next to an aerodrome not far from here.

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    • O Oakman

      Christian Graus wrote:

      I was left very depressed.

      Don't assume that Rolling Stone is a bastion of unbiased journalism and you might feel better. ;)

      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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      Christian Graus
      wrote on last edited by
      #26

      I know what his bias is. That doesn't mean he's lying.

      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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      • S Stan Shannon

        Christian Graus wrote:

        I read a book written by a rolling stone editor, in which he joined several conspiracy groups and also a number of churches in the south.,

        Thats odd, I've lived my entire life in and around the south, and have never encountered any of that. Of course, I wasn't actually trying to find them though... Every place I've ever been to had prius' and recycling bins.

        Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

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        Christian Graus
        wrote on last edited by
        #27

        Well, I'd hate to think that I implied everyone in the south was like that. But, that such people exist at all, is depressing.

        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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        • I Ilion

          Christian Graus wrote:

          People are 'encouraged' ( in quotes ) to recycle because of inefficiency, and recycling also CAUSES inefficiency ? What does that mean ?

          It means you're not trying to understand what I wrote.

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          Christian Graus
          wrote on last edited by
          #28

          I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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          • O Oakman

            Stan Shannon wrote:

            our energy will still be far less efficient and far more expensive than it would be using fossil fuel.

            T. Boone Pickens didn't seem to think so, though, admittedly that was when the price of oil was a lot higher.

            Stan Shannon wrote:

            Yet, because we are using less of it, the price will drop

            If the price drops, China, indeed, will be glad. But Russia, Venezuela, and Iran, just to mention a few, won't be happy at all, will they? Look at the dithering that OPEC is going through right now - announcing that for the good of the world they aren't going to cut production and begging Brazil to join them. In all honesty, I think talking too much about the future of energy production right now is wasted...er...energy. The way the economy is heading, we will be able to keep warm and read at night by burning dollar bills.

            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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            Brady Kelly
            wrote on last edited by
            #29

            Oakman wrote:

            we will be able to keep warm and read at night by burning dollar bills.

            Zimerica! :rolleyes:

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            • I Ilion

              Christian Graus wrote:

              The biggest issue is not morons who assume that there is a never ending supply of oil.

              There is a reason we have to rely upon governmental bribes and compulsion ... along with false moralism ... to "encourage" people to recycle. It has nothing to do with "corporate greed," it has to do with the economic inefficiency ... the waste of time and resources ... which is the result of most recycling.

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              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #30

              The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

              Ilíon wrote:

              governmental bribes and compulsion

              If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

              Bob Emmett

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              • I Ilion

                Of course, neither wind nor solar has any chance of feeding meaningful amounts of energy into the grid. But it is amusing to watch "liberals" shooting down their own panaceas.

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                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #31

                Ilíon wrote:

                "liberals" shooting down their own panaceas.

                Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                Bob Emmett

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                • C Christian Graus

                  I know what his bias is. That doesn't mean he's lying.

                  Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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                  Oakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #32

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  That doesn't mean he's lying

                  But there is a form of lying that require nothing more than a careful selection and rearrangement of, the facts. I admire Rolling Stone but whenever I read a piece that seems to paint too dark - or too light -- a picture, I tend to what to find out more for myself before assuming I know everything I need to know - that is especially true when I think the article is reinforcing my biases or prejudices.

                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                  • L Lost User

                    The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

                    Ilíon wrote:

                    governmental bribes and compulsion

                    If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                    Bob Emmett

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #33

                    Bob Emmett wrote:

                    Government compensation or compulsion ...

                    At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

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                    • L Lost User

                      The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

                      Ilíon wrote:

                      governmental bribes and compulsion

                      If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                      Bob Emmett

                      O Offline
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                      Oakman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #34

                      Bob Emmett wrote:

                      Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                      As I pointed out above, "best practice" is open to interpretation. It would appear likely that if our present congress is any guide making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                      • S Stan Shannon

                        Oakman wrote:

                        It was more restful when we both believed that Obama would govern from the center and argued about why he would do so.

                        I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither. He seems to simply be randomly picking solutions from American history and relying on Pelosi to ram things through for him. And his ability to build an effective leadership team so far makes Bush look like U.S. Grant.

                        Oakman wrote:

                        Looking back, I think the only one who might have had a shot was Ron Paul.

                        At the very least, with Paul, we would still have had something resembling America once the dust had settled.

                        Oakman wrote:

                        Better bet would be to put your librarian skills to use and begin to pack away a collection that would help you and your survive in the new stoneage. Who knows, you might find a bunch of kids in the desert and lead them to the promised land - or at least be remembered in all their tells.

                        I'll just have to keep on the look out for large angry black women running pig farms as I wonder wander the wastelands with my extensive collection of material on the southern colonies.

                        Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

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                        M Offline
                        Mike Gaskey
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #35

                        Stan Shannon wrote:

                        I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                        • L Lost User

                          Bob Emmett wrote:

                          Government compensation or compulsion ...

                          At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rob Graham
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #36

                          Richard A. Abbott wrote:

                          At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

                          That's on next years agenda for Obama, Pelosi, Reid & Co.

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                          • O Oakman

                            Bob Emmett wrote:

                            Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                            As I pointed out above, "best practice" is open to interpretation. It would appear likely that if our present congress is any guide making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

                            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                            L Offline
                            L Offline
                            Lost User
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #37

                            Oakman wrote:

                            making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

                            Far more likely than the "best practice" arising from the disinterested analysis I had in mind. :sigh:

                            Bob Emmett

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                            • L Lost User

                              Bob Emmett wrote:

                              Government compensation or compulsion ...

                              At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

                              L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Lost User
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #38

                              Richard A. Abbott wrote:

                              At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives

                              The directives are not all bad. Certainly the construction and management of landfill sites in the UK has improved since the directive. However statements like: "As costs of waste disposal at landfill rise and operators pass on the costs of meeting the requirement to producers - then there will be an increased incentive for those producers to reduce those costs by minimising the amount of waste they produce or recycling or re-using that which they do.", show a complete disregard of the propensity of companies to find cheaper (illegal) alternatives. But that's DEFRA not the EU.

                              Bob Emmett

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                              • M Mike Gaskey

                                Stan Shannon wrote:

                                I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                                he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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                                G Offline
                                Gary Kirkham
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #39

                                No surprises with me either. I guess some were expecting Bill Clinton II. Things will get much worse, but then these are the signs of the times. From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that Christ's return is imminent.

                                Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

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                                • G Gary Kirkham

                                  No surprises with me either. I guess some were expecting Bill Clinton II. Things will get much worse, but then these are the signs of the times. From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that Christ's return is imminent.

                                  Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

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                                  O Offline
                                  Oakman
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #40

                                  Gary Kirkham wrote:

                                  From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that ever that Christ's return is imminent.

                                  But isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself? You're not saying that Son of the Father of Lies walks among us now, are you? . . . Wait - that's what Troy called me! :omg:

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                  • M Mike Gaskey

                                    Stan Shannon wrote:

                                    I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                                    he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                    Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                                    I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    Ilion
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #41

                                    Mike Gaskey wrote:

                                    he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                    I agree -- he is someone who does not love America and despises its traditions; (and, regardless of where he was actually born) does not in his heart-of-hearts consider himself to be an American, and considers himself better than "the average" American. He's a leftist.

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                                    • L Lost User

                                      Ilíon wrote:

                                      "liberals" shooting down their own panaceas.

                                      Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                                      Bob Emmett

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                                      I Offline
                                      Ilion
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #42

                                      Bob Emmett wrote:

                                      Ilíon: ..."liberals" shooting down their own panaceas. Bob Emmett: Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                                      What a stultifyingly "liberal" expression of ignorance.

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                                      • I Ilion

                                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                                        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                        I agree -- he is someone who does not love America and despises its traditions; (and, regardless of where he was actually born) does not in his heart-of-hearts consider himself to be an American, and considers himself better than "the average" American. He's a leftist.

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                                        O Offline
                                        Oakman
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #43

                                        Ilíon wrote:

                                        He's a leftist.

                                        Don't you consider Ayn Rand to be a leftist?

                                        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                        • C Christian Graus

                                          I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

                                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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                                          Ilion
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #44

                                          Christian Graus wrote:

                                          I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

                                          We both know that you made little to no effort to understand. I speculate that that is because you're "liberal" -- you imagine that cost and benefit analysis is "immoral."

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