GM

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

That is going to hurt a lot of dealerships.

Usually, when a dealer loses a franchise (even when the brand disappears like Olds) the company settles with the dealer: buying back cars, unopened parts boxes, special tools, etc. But when a company is bankrupt, they don't have any of these obligations and the dealers don't really have much of a legal recourse. Bankruptcy used to thought of as something to be avoided, even ashamed of. Now it's a chance to thumb your nose at people who trusted you and call them "suckers."

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Chris Austin

Oakman wrote:

But when a company is bankrupt, they don't have any of these obligations and the dealers don't really have much of a legal recourse.

Wow. That really sucks. It could be a business opportunity for somebody with cash or few dealers willing to work together.

Oakman wrote:

Bankruptcy used to thought of as something to be avoided, even ashamed of. Now it's a chance to thumb your nose at people who trusted you and call them "suckers."

Yep. I have a former business associate who owes me a lot of money that used bankruptcy for just that. There is no way for me to describe the anger it causes.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

I have a former business associate who owes me a lot of money that used bankruptcy for just that.

Some folks seem to think the government is a failure because it hasn't made homosexuality and atheism a felony; others seem to want accumulation of capital to bear the same penalty. Very few people seem at all surprised or concerned that they have a government that permits real persons and fictional persons to break contracts with impugnity. The latest, of course, is mortgage cram-down. If I designed a game with (proportionately) as many loopholes as contract law has in the U.S. it would be reviewed as unplayable.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Chris Austin

Oakman wrote:

If I designed a game with (proportionately) as many loopholes as contract law has in the U.S. it would be reviewed as unplayable.

It would be a spreadsheet :laugh: :laugh: Then again, that is what a lot of people say about EVE Online but, it has shown real lasting power.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Christian Graus

I wonder how closely GM are tied to Holden here in Australia, I've not heard anything about them being in trouble.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Ilion

Oakman wrote:

Bankruptcy used to thought of as something to be avoided, even ashamed of. Now it's a chance to thumb your nose at people who trusted you and call them "suckers."

You really ought to make up your mind as to where you're going to stand ... is our society to be organized around morality or around legality? You explicitly reject the former, yet here you are bitching about the natural result of the latter (and your bitch is coherent only in a context of the former).

Oakman

Ilíon wrote:

You explicitly reject the former

I think you're confusing morality with religion - they often have nothinbg to do with each other. I have offered a definition of morality, not based on a fear of what the priests and prophets will say their god wants (besides large donations to them) but instead on the survival of the species.

Ilíon wrote:

about the natural result of the latter

Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

I wonder how closely GM are tied to Holden here in Australia

GM owns Holden.

Christian Graus wrote:

I've not heard anything about them being in trouble.

In a report on the future of Australia's automobile industry from AAP that was hosted on several news sites, Clive Matthew-Wilson, Editor of the car buyers Dog & Lemon Guide, claims that Holden will most likely be the first carmaker from Down-Under to bite the dust due to the recession[^] I am afraid that now you have. :(

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

Then again, that is what a lot of people say about EVE Online

I have great respect for the boyos over at Eve, but no desire to play the game. I prefer the kind of combat algorithms that Civ 4 employs which deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Christian Graus

Ilíon wrote:

and your bitch is coherent only

Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Rob Graham

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Christian Graus

Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

Arf! :thumbsup:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Chris Austin

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I am lucky I swallowed the gulp of water I had just taken right before reading your post.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Chris Austin

Oakman wrote:

I have great respect for the boyos over at Eve, but no desire to play the game.

I've enjoyed the game the times I've played it but not enough to hang around for more than a month. The times I have had the chance to chat with some of the team members they are very friendly and really enthusiastic about their work. They gave a really good talk at this years pycon here[^] and here[^].

Oakman wrote:

I prefer the kind of combat algorithms that Civ 4 employs which deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

Another game that has stolen nights from me. My wife pretty much forced me to remove it from my game machine.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Oakman

Chris Austin wrote:

My wife pretty much forced me to remove it from my game machine.

Just one more turn, honey. Then I'll come to bed. . .

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Lost User

Christian Graus wrote:

Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

Have no fear, Kev will save us!!!!

Christian Graus

Yeah, I feel much better now....

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Ilion

That was so lame X| , and so automatic :zzz: ... and, naturally, pretty much what one has learned to expect.

Christian Graus

Wow - the approval of people who I respect, and the disapproval of the person who I don't. That's what I call a 100% success rate.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )