Overtime Compensation
-
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
-
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
-
3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
dighn wrote:
Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
In small companies, yes, because of the inevitable personal relationships (it's hard to fire someone you know and like). In large companies not at all. Not because there aren't the same relationships as above, but because the decisions typically come from other departments where you are just a number.
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
-
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
You know what? I've been working for the same company for 19 years. I have survived more economic turns of the wheel than I can count.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are obviously not a team player
Wrong. In my department, I have the unofficial position of Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy. As the DSJB, I administer our department server, our source control system, our automated build process, and a host of other activities that keep our development group operating efficiently. Most of this is voluntary, and I consistently receive appreciative remarks on my appraisals for stepping up and doing all the crap nobody else wants to. In case you're wondering, this is on top of my regular responsibilities as one of the three senior developers in a group of 12.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule
Not hardly. It's fairly rare that we, as a group, have to put in overtime. I've done it occasionally, when others have done so, even when I was only tangentially involved in the crisis at hand. The biggest reason we have to put in overtime is that we are overcommitted by engineering management. Our group of 12 supports 5 products, some of which have 2 or 3 active branches, along with any number of special projects. Our running joke is that we always have to figure out which of our half-dozen number-one top priorities we are supposed to be working on.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company
Bullshit. My contribution to the success of the company is doing the best job I know how to do, in the most efficient manner possible. Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Snowman58 wrote:
Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With -
3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
Anyone who treats their employer, large or small, as if they have some emotional attachment to them, is a fool. Your boss may like you and appreciate what you do. If there is an economic reason to lay you off, they will, regardless of their feelings.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
What if someone wants to work a couple of hours late because he needs to either come in late (or leave early) in a day or two ? (overtime is not always due to bad management)
This signature was proudly tested on animals.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
No abuse intended as well but people with your mentality are exactly why corporate life is hell. And, as someone who employes extremely efficient and self sufficient programmers I would never hire you. The reasons are: 1) You obviously are not a balanced individual - you try and make up for your lack of any semblance of a meaningful life by attempting to force people to work additional hours without compensation. Why? Because you never had the balls to tell someone 'no'. 2) You are undermining your co-workers moral. You think that because you experience 'pain' due to your inability to meet your deadlines then everybody else should be miserable. 3) You over-think and over estimate your importance to the company. Every intelligent company that runs into a crunch time realizes that their good employees need to be treated well and compensated for their time. You obviously have never worked for a quality employer and have no clue how important it is to keep your core team working effectively.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
-
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
You seem like a moron to me.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
If it looks like it is going to be something that is common you should negotiate something in writing. Personally I prefer time off.
Shelby Robetson wrote:
time off,
One place I worked we used to get comp time i.e. one hour off for every hour worked. If you are in this situation make sure it is in writing. After a management change they tried to remove this compensation and within a month all but two of the original core team of twelve had resigned.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
-
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
Interestingly my hours as stated in the contract are 8:30am to 6:15 with 45 minutes for lunch. The actualy work hour are approx 9am to 7pm with 2 hours lunch. Never been paid overtime in my entire development career. Do the hours to get the job done, I've been known to take work home and also take days off, neither affecting my compensation. My boss is happy with the results and I get paid, handsomely.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
You know what? I've been working for the same company for 19 years. I have survived more economic turns of the wheel than I can count.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are obviously not a team player
Wrong. In my department, I have the unofficial position of Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy. As the DSJB, I administer our department server, our source control system, our automated build process, and a host of other activities that keep our development group operating efficiently. Most of this is voluntary, and I consistently receive appreciative remarks on my appraisals for stepping up and doing all the crap nobody else wants to. In case you're wondering, this is on top of my regular responsibilities as one of the three senior developers in a group of 12.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule
Not hardly. It's fairly rare that we, as a group, have to put in overtime. I've done it occasionally, when others have done so, even when I was only tangentially involved in the crisis at hand. The biggest reason we have to put in overtime is that we are overcommitted by engineering management. Our group of 12 supports 5 products, some of which have 2 or 3 active branches, along with any number of special projects. Our running joke is that we always have to figure out which of our half-dozen number-one top priorities we are supposed to be working on.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company
Bullshit. My contribution to the success of the company is doing the best job I know how to do, in the most efficient manner possible. Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Snowman58 wrote:
Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold WithGary R. Wheeler wrote:
Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Amen. I once worked from 7 am to 10 pm, and my co workers had shown up for work at midday. I told my boss at 10, I can stay here and write bugs, or I can get some sleep. The image of the hero coder working through the night, does not gel with reality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
I think people have been pretty hard on you here. I think all your points are valid. Your only mistake is that you were a little hard on Gary who is a regular. :)
-
Hallelujah, brothers and sisters, say it again!
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]YEAH!
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
dighn wrote:
therefore the company owes no loyalty to you
Loyalty from a company? Arf! I think even in Japan these things are gone.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
dighn wrote:
Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
In small companies, yes, because of the inevitable personal relationships (it's hard to fire someone you know and like). In large companies not at all. Not because there aren't the same relationships as above, but because the decisions typically come from other departments where you are just a number.
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
MidwestLimey wrote:
In small companies, yes, because of the inevitable personal relationships (it's hard to fire someone you know and like).
Size does not matter! Actually that reminds me a story of a manager who was doing his best not to fire anyone. And he was doing a good job at it. Unfortunately, a change in capital structure pushed him out. First thing the new manager did was to lay off people!! The funny part is the compulsive layoffer was laid off eventually. :doh:
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
You know what? I've been working for the same company for 19 years. I have survived more economic turns of the wheel than I can count.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are obviously not a team player
Wrong. In my department, I have the unofficial position of Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy. As the DSJB, I administer our department server, our source control system, our automated build process, and a host of other activities that keep our development group operating efficiently. Most of this is voluntary, and I consistently receive appreciative remarks on my appraisals for stepping up and doing all the crap nobody else wants to. In case you're wondering, this is on top of my regular responsibilities as one of the three senior developers in a group of 12.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule
Not hardly. It's fairly rare that we, as a group, have to put in overtime. I've done it occasionally, when others have done so, even when I was only tangentially involved in the crisis at hand. The biggest reason we have to put in overtime is that we are overcommitted by engineering management. Our group of 12 supports 5 products, some of which have 2 or 3 active branches, along with any number of special projects. Our running joke is that we always have to figure out which of our half-dozen number-one top priorities we are supposed to be working on.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company
Bullshit. My contribution to the success of the company is doing the best job I know how to do, in the most efficient manner possible. Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Snowman58 wrote:
Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold WithGary R. Wheeler wrote:
Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
So true! This is an illusion to think overstressed workers are more productive. The only good it does is flattering the egos of those who believe in such things.
Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Which is a perfect nonsense!
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
Shelby Robetson wrote:
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Generally none of the above. Although technically I am never asked to work overtime, however I do get in trouble if the job is not finished on schedule. It's usually my fault that I don't always take this into account when I am asked how long something is going to take. The problem with a fudge factor is if I make it longer than some time schedule dictates the project can and will get simplified in some way that looks on the surface to reduce the work however in reality it may or may not reduce the time it takes to finish.
John
-
No abuse intended as well but people with your mentality are exactly why corporate life is hell. And, as someone who employes extremely efficient and self sufficient programmers I would never hire you. The reasons are: 1) You obviously are not a balanced individual - you try and make up for your lack of any semblance of a meaningful life by attempting to force people to work additional hours without compensation. Why? Because you never had the balls to tell someone 'no'. 2) You are undermining your co-workers moral. You think that because you experience 'pain' due to your inability to meet your deadlines then everybody else should be miserable. 3) You over-think and over estimate your importance to the company. Every intelligent company that runs into a crunch time realizes that their good employees need to be treated well and compensated for their time. You obviously have never worked for a quality employer and have no clue how important it is to keep your core team working effectively.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
:thumbsup:
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I get to keep my job! :-D
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009...So you really think doing overtime will protect you from a layoff? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
A thanks and more overtime