Is it just me...
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I haven't done any native code on VS2010 yet, I don't do much of it at all. I'm mostly active in C#. I too blame MS for taking too many decisions; it is fine they add functionality and features, improve speed or size; it is not OK they decide things the users should be able to decide for themselves. I know, doing so could lead to lots of settings, well so be it. It should be possible to recreate what you had when switching tool generations, so functionality, look and feel, size, and performance should, at some setting, be nearly identical. However they seem to think they know better. It holds true for all their products: Windows, Office, Visual, ... I for one would not remove the old menu bar from Office; just add the ribbon, and let the user decide. Why force these things? With all their OO prowess, how hard can it be to offer two different views on the command infrastructure? :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
Luc Pattyn wrote:
With all their OO prowess, how hard can it be to offer two different views on the command infrastructure
About as hard as it is to properly OOpify the plain old TextBox. Since Win95 I keep reading about how they are going to move everything over to 'proper' OO. Haven't seen much evidence of it yet.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” Why do programmers often confuse Halloween and Christmas? Because 31 Oct = 25 Dec.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
the color is just one part of it. the whole UI style is icky.
If you think this UI is bad, you should take a look at Expression Blend. It's probably the most ghastly UI you'd have seen in years :-D
Regards, Nish
Blog: blog.voidnish.com Most recent article: An MVVM friendly approach to adding system menu entries in a WPF application
Maybe they should come up with a way of splitting the job, leaving the technical stuff to technical people, and the aesthetic aspects to some designers; we would then get functional and reliable tools that look good too. I wonder why they haven't done so yet, or did I miss something? :laugh:
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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or does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
Chris Losinger wrote:
does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
I actually like the way the IDE looks. I guess these types of things are just a matter of opinion. The only negative issue I have noticed is the speed of the IDE. I'm on a fairly high-end desktop workstation... but when I am using VS2010 I feel completely and utterly managed. But overall I guess the improvements outweigh the negative aspects. I can deal with a 3 second delay as long as everything works correctly. VS2010 is absolutely an improvement for C++ developers because of the support for C++0x features. I have also noticed a huge improvement while debugging heavily templated code. While working with VS2005/VS2008 I was deleting the intellisense database once per week and allowing it to rebuild on some of my larger projects. I have not had to do this with VS2010; not even once. Best Wishes, -David Delaune
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is this your first day in the Lounge ?
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
VS2010 is way better than every Java IDE I've ever used including Eclipse
i closed a solution (the first solution i ever opened), and the entire IDE went white, except for a non-functioning ghost view of the search/replace dialog - a dialog which had suddenly docked itself to the right side of the IDE. not. ready. for. release.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i closed a solution (the first solution i ever opened), and the entire IDE went white
I have actually seen that happen a few times in VS2010 myself. Each time it happened I was upgrading a large C++ project from a previous version of Visual Studio and closed it a few seconds later. If I had to take a guess I would say that Visual Studio appears to be scanning the project #includes for the intellisense database. My guess would be that when the IDE closes it is waiting on the intellisense database-building threads to terminate. I'm not even sure if managed developers will experience this IDE freeze... because the managed intellisense database is built with the Metadata API[^] while C++ intellisense is built by brute-force file scanning. Best Wishes, -David Delaune
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or does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
I've only just started using it and it does seem a quicker and I'm already loving that I can drag code to my second monitor. I'm not too fond of the colour scheme and how everything 'blends' together (if you know what I mean) but it seems like a nice step up from VS2008. As for looking like some Java IDE from 1996 I can't really comment, I've barely used any Java and certainly not way back in '96. You can change the colour scheme though.
My current favourite quote is: Punch them in the face, see what happens!
-SK Genius
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is this your first day in the Lounge ?
He/she/it/they are just a number (and not even a prime one, at that). Factor them out and go on.
Software Zen:
delete this;
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is this your first day in the Lounge ?
I think that was a joke
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L %^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2 W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN% R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia>
----------------------------------------------- 128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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or does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
Yep. We're skipping this one for that and other reasons.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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or does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
The editor now has adjustable scale.. Tired eyes, 150% view... WONDERFUL!
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: The Arrogant Apple!
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
VS2010 is way better than every Java IDE I've ever used including Eclipse
i closed a solution (the first solution i ever opened), and the entire IDE went white, except for a non-functioning ghost view of the search/replace dialog - a dialog which had suddenly docked itself to the right side of the IDE. not. ready. for. release.
When I read your name, I first read it as Chris Loslinger. Which caused me to do a double-take. It must be that sunburn I got yesterday. But, perhaps that was your mental energy projecting your self-image through the internet.
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nope, this is the first time i've installed it. it's a clean install of the "trial" version that i downloaded Wednesday. here's some fun. i'm building a library. it's all C/C++, no MFC or ATL. some STL. so, same source code, same build options, 5 different VC++ versions. this is a static lib, linking against the debug multi-threaded CRT. watch the library size grow! VC6: 8,400K VS03: 19,000K VS05: 33,000K VS08: 36,000K VS10: 60,000K again, same source, same options. as if the 4x bloat from VC6 to VS08 wasn't bad enough, the nearly 8x bloat to VS10 is absurd. and why ? well, it probably has something to do with the fact that you can no longer omit debugging info from a library ! (Properties, C/C++, General, Debug Info Format). another fine choice, MS. as was getting rid of the MDI interface!
Uhh.. so what? It's debug. They've added more debug code most likely. And, as you say, you can't strip debug info.. Why do you want to build a debug build but not have any debugging info? Seems odd to me. Now, what are the release build sizes? THAT would be important.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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or does the VS2010 IDE look and feel like some crappy Java IDE from 1996 ?
It's probably not just you, but it's certainly not me. It seems some people just hate change. Whenever anything changes, all they can do is complain about it. They hate the ribbon, they hate the new Windows 7 toolbar. They hate the new XP Start Menu. These people configure their systems to look as much like Windows 2000 (or even 9x) as possible. If you work in technology, you have got to be prepared for change. That's what it does. All the time. You can't expect that things will stay the same, and more importantly, you have to learn to embrace it. Every change may not be to our liking, but you're going to be flattened by the steamroller of time if you don't learn to roll with it.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Uhh.. so what? It's debug. They've added more debug code most likely. And, as you say, you can't strip debug info.. Why do you want to build a debug build but not have any debugging info? Seems odd to me. Now, what are the release build sizes? THAT would be important.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
. And, as you say, you can't strip debug info..
in every version of Visual Studio / Visual C++ before 2010, you could.
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Why do you want to build a debug build but not have any debugging info? Seems odd to me.
some of our products are delivered as static libraries, and you can't link an app which uses the debug CRT to a static lib that uses the release CRT.
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
Now, what are the release build sizes?
VC6 : 11,000K VS03 : 19,000K VS05 : 23,000K VS08 : 25,000K VS10 : 39,600K
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It's probably not just you, but it's certainly not me. It seems some people just hate change. Whenever anything changes, all they can do is complain about it. They hate the ribbon, they hate the new Windows 7 toolbar. They hate the new XP Start Menu. These people configure their systems to look as much like Windows 2000 (or even 9x) as possible. If you work in technology, you have got to be prepared for change. That's what it does. All the time. You can't expect that things will stay the same, and more importantly, you have to learn to embrace it. Every change may not be to our liking, but you're going to be flattened by the steamroller of time if you don't learn to roll with it.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
i don't hate change. but i do dislike changes which reduce functionality.
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i don't hate change. but i do dislike changes which reduce functionality.
What functionality is reduced in 2010?
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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What functionality is reduced in 2010?
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
can't disable the inclusion of debug info from a build. doesn't do a proper MDI interface.
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can't disable the inclusion of debug info from a build. doesn't do a proper MDI interface.
Ok, but the first is the compiler tools, not the IDE. The second is the change to support multiple monitors. You lose some while gaining the other.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Ok, but the first is the compiler tools, not the IDE. The second is the change to support multiple monitors. You lose some while gaining the other.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
whatever the reason: lost functionality