16 Page CV!
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I have bad handwritting being left handed (well thats my excuse!) but with this good old age of technology I type me communications so they can be easily read. Surely the effectiveness of the communication is what is more important. I have worked with people who have had great handwritting but their communication skills were poor!
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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I do not expect Copperplate, but it must be readable. If I cannot read it easily then it is 'Sloppy' and sloppiness in one area is often seen in others. We turnover staff at the rate of maybe one person every three years, so our method obviously works. (I have been here 13 years and others for far longer).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
sloppiness in one area is often seen in others
That is about as untrue as it gets. I believe I have yet to meet a carpenter with good handwriting, or with much knowledge of grammar, or who is able to write marketing copy to sell themselves in introductory letters. It's their lack of sloppiness with a chisel that counts. You may have filled some seats (perhaps with people who are inflexible, frightened of change, and/or good politicians, if they've lasted that long), but are you sure you got the *Best*? Based on your rejection method, I'd say it's eminently unlikely.
By the way, compared to mine, your English is Very sloppy. BIN!
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yes you are correct :)
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
did he write everything in 72pt :laugh:
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L %^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2 W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN% R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia>
----------------------------------------------- 128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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Dalek Dave wrote:
sloppiness in one area is often seen in others
That is about as untrue as it gets. I believe I have yet to meet a carpenter with good handwriting, or with much knowledge of grammar, or who is able to write marketing copy to sell themselves in introductory letters. It's their lack of sloppiness with a chisel that counts. You may have filled some seats (perhaps with people who are inflexible, frightened of change, and/or good politicians, if they've lasted that long), but are you sure you got the *Best*? Based on your rejection method, I'd say it's eminently unlikely.
By the way, compared to mine, your English is Very sloppy. BIN!
I don't hire Carpenters or Electricians. I am dealing with management types, Site Managers, Supervisors, Draughtsment etc. I know a sparky will not have the writing skills of Geoffrey Chaucer, and I don't care. What I want is a manager who can communicate.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
I keep two copies of my CV updated - a single-page abridged teaser and the full 4 page monster. With 21 years experience I think 4 pages is OK. When I was looking for a new job earlier this year I did my best to keep the full CV to two pages but most recruiters told me to flesh it out.
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I've been in the business since 1980, and mine is only four pages (not counting the list of skills I've acquired - that's an additional two pages).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001If you're good at CCC then DD's job is yours. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
This has always been my advice for a contractor and a CV[^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
- Page 1: "let me introduce myself".
- Page 2: "let me introduce my family".
- Page 3: "let me introduce my dog". (keeping animals 'out of the family' helps...)
...
:rolleyes:
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
This has always been my advice for a contractor and a CV[^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I would absolutely disagree with this point though:- "...the agent or employer will discard or disregard anything that they don't feel is up to date or relevant" Its surely up the the employee to tailor his CV to suit the application? Why should I wade through 15 pages of irrelevant crap looking for something useful?
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Mark Wallace wrote:
Is writing in perfect English a function of the job?
Correct answer - of course it isn't!
Caslen wrote:
Correct answer - of course it isn't!
Fair enough, then. Don't waste your time worrying about things they can't do that aren't relevant, look for the things they can do that are. I've found that the real stars are sometimes the ones you least expect, so I don't "bin" anyone until I've given them a fair crack of the whip.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I don't hire Carpenters or Electricians. I am dealing with management types, Site Managers, Supervisors, Draughtsment etc. I know a sparky will not have the writing skills of Geoffrey Chaucer, and I don't care. What I want is a manager who can communicate.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Draughtsment
BIN!!!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Caslen wrote:
Correct answer - of course it isn't!
Fair enough, then. Don't waste your time worrying about things they can't do that aren't relevant, look for the things they can do that are. I've found that the real stars are sometimes the ones you least expect, so I don't "bin" anyone until I've given them a fair crack of the whip.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I don't hire Carpenters or Electricians. I am dealing with management types, Site Managers, Supervisors, Draughtsment etc. I know a sparky will not have the writing skills of Geoffrey Chaucer, and I don't care. What I want is a manager who can communicate.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Draughtsment etc.
Draughtsmen surely ;P
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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I would absolutely disagree with this point though:- "...the agent or employer will discard or disregard anything that they don't feel is up to date or relevant" Its surely up the the employee to tailor his CV to suit the application? Why should I wade through 15 pages of irrelevant crap looking for something useful?
You missed the point: this was in relation to older data on your cv; for instance, what you did 5 years ago is pertinent to a timeline but the technology used may not be of any current relevence.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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yes you are correct :)
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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You missed the point: this was in relation to older data on your cv; for instance, what you did 5 years ago is pertinent to a timeline but the technology used may not be of any current relevence.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
You missed the point
I don't think so, it's still down to the potential employee to tell me what he can do for me, not for him to tell me everything he's done and expect me to sort through it all. I can't imagine any employer looking a 16 page CV and not binning it (or asking for a relevant one as I have done) although I guess I'm wrong there because the guy is still being employed!
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
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Does it starts with "Once upon a time in [insert applicant location], a young lad met a charming lady who were destined to be my parents"?
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I have a rule when CV's come in. If they are less than 3 pages, in the bin. If they are more than 8 Pages, in the bin. If they are not accompanied by a hand written letter (as required in advert), in the bin. If they are generic and not addressed to us, in the bin. It is not hard to get these things right, and we have such a small turnover in staff because we choose well. Anyone who cannot follow simple instructions is no use. (Also, bad handwriting or poor spelling...guess where!)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
You ask for an actual hand-written (and just to be clear: you mean with a pen?) letter? I love the concept. I have particular trouble seeing its relevance to a programming gig. Some of the best resumes I've seen have been 1-2 pages. Just the experience relevant to the position they are applying for and no fluff. Quite frankly, though, a single line would be sufficient: "I have a brain, common sense and a willingness to take responsibility for my own work and I choose to employ these three skills daily".
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
