What do people think of the death penalty for Aimal Kasi?
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I think it's clear he's talking about the death penalty. I tend to agree. It disturbs me that the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world officially kills people. But you guys are free to run your country however you like, of course. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: It disturbs me that the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world officially kills people. See, there you go again, listening to our press and our politicians. ;P Out of curiousity, if someone came to Tasmania and killed two people simply because they were Tasmanian, what kind of penalty could he expect? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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Barbarism. -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Barbarism. You Europeans are soooo enlightened... :rolleyes:
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
If people think that two wrongs make a right then by all means go ahead and put him out of his misery... I really can't understand why a "civilised" nation as the US persists in doing this... it makes me sick.
Because even civilised people feel the need for justice. Why is it that others can cry the need to rise up and murder our people but wee seem to have no right to pick up a rock and fight back. I, for one, am out of cheeks to turn.
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Matt Philmon wrote: Can I call all Muslims killers just because a few of them are crazy zealots? Isn't it funny that Muslims are people, but CIA agents are not ? I agree that the CIA has done some shabby things, but if the answer is to kill people then we can have no law at all. Matt Philmon wrote: and the term "going postal I had no idea that is where it comes from !!!!! Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I agree that the CIA has done some shabby things, but if the answer is to kill people then we can have no law at all. What do you expect when the law says it is alright to kidnap and assasinate the leaders of another country? I have no sympathy for those two muslim killers. However, what they did can be described as "beating the CIA at its own game".
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brianwelsch wrote: I seriously doubt that. I don't doubt it. If the US did it in the correct way, it could throw a whole lot of Muslim support into the US arena. The end effect of this could be less US servicemen dead on battle-fields. Also as you suggest the Parkistani Govt will look better to it's own population, and the US is making good use of the current Government. At a domestic level I can see why the US should not excuse his execution, but in International Politics the US needs to do something to look more approachable to the people of other countries. Of course if he had killed a member of my family I'd be saying execute him also. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: If the US did it in the correct way, it could throw a whole lot of Muslim support into the US arena. Which would be? I have trouble seeing that it would be much of a feather in our cap. I would certainly like to see fewer deaths, servicemen or other, but I'm not sure pardoning this fellow would be such a turningpoint to greater understanding. Colin Davies wrote: International Politics the US needs to do something to look more approachable to the people of other countries I can't deny this. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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So you're against the Death Penalty in general? I can respect that.... but I can't stomach the idea of showing leniency to a murderer for political reasons. What about the families of those murdered CIA agents?
It seems to me that if the penalty were high enough (ie. the death penalty) then a lot less murders would take place. It is not only punishment for deciding that you have the right to take another's life when they want to live, but also protection for future possible victims.
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
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What do you propose? We reward him with free health-care, cable TV, access to a library and gym, a place to sleep, and 3 cooked meals? Oh, yeah, and periodic conjugal visits? That's what most our tough-as-nails criminals have to contend with. That's a fair exchange for the someones life isn't it? Maybe if I kill someone in your family, you'll be as kind as to put me out of my misery, so I won't have to dwell on the fact that I was such heartless callous bastard. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: What do you propose? We reward him with free health-care, cable TV, access to a library and gym, a place to sleep, and 3 cooked meals? Oh, yeah, and periodic conjugal visits? I think Brian hit nail on the head. If we were to spare him, what should be done with him? And, what should we do once the so-called politicians start asking for his release. Where does it end? Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffe.
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So you're against the Death Penalty in general? I can respect that.... but I can't stomach the idea of showing leniency to a murderer for political reasons. What about the families of those murdered CIA agents?
I could have sworn the subject was just "What do people think of the death penalty" when I wrote my post. I didn't have time to read the actual article when I saw it, so my comment may have been a little off base. :-O I believe that death penalty in general is a bad idea. When I was younger I didn't see any problem in killing anyone. But I've come to believe that it isn't ok to take another mans life, no matter what. When I think about killing another human being, it gives me creepy feelings. I just feel that it's wrong. Logic would dictate that a murderer should receive what he/she deserves. But I just can't make that conclusion. I try to live my life by reasoning, but this subject is one thing I just cannot reason about, I'll have to go with my gut feeling on this one. -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer
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It seems to me that if the penalty were high enough (ie. the death penalty) then a lot less murders would take place. It is not only punishment for deciding that you have the right to take another's life when they want to live, but also protection for future possible victims.
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
Usually the objection against death penalty is that it cannot be reversed; if it was later found that the accused is indeed innocent. Most of the objection is because many possible death penalty cases had the accused acquitted later on - in some cases, years later. I do not have any references for these claims right now; but that is what I remember vaguely. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Barbarism. Which? The murder of two people or forfeiting the killer's life? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=334425#xx334425xx[^] :) -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Barbarism. You Europeans are soooo enlightened... :rolleyes:
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: You Europeans are soooo enlightened... Yup. The age of enlightenment started in europe ;) Anyway, I explain my post here: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=334425#xx334425xx[^] -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer
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Christian Graus wrote: It disturbs me that the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world officially kills people. See, there you go again, listening to our press and our politicians. ;P Out of curiousity, if someone came to Tasmania and killed two people simply because they were Tasmanian, what kind of penalty could he expect? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: Out of curiousity, if someone came to Tasmania and killed two people simply because they were Tasmanian, what kind of penalty could he expect? Dress him up as Tasmanians and tie him to a post so that the next group of Tasminian haters can see clearly? ;P ;P
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Christian Graus wrote: It disturbs me that the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world officially kills people. See, there you go again, listening to our press and our politicians. ;P Out of curiousity, if someone came to Tasmania and killed two people simply because they were Tasmanian, what kind of penalty could he expect? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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Stefan Pedersen wrote: If people think that two wrongs make a right then by all means go ahead and put him out of his misery... I really can't understand why a "civilised" nation as the US persists in doing this... it makes me sick. Just out of curiousity, what would be your recommended punishment for someone who killed two of your country's citizens? What if one of those citizens was your wife, or mother, or child?? Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
That is a very simple question. Ofcourse I would be raging mad, wanting to kill the person with my bare hands. But that wouldn't bring anyone back to life and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ease my suffering (except maybe for the short moment the perpetrator perishes before my eyes). The question isn't really about what I would do... It's about what a goverment allows itself to do to the citizens. As I said, two wrongs doesn't make a right. So what do I think the goverment should do? Lock em up for life or treat criminality as a desease and try to cure it? Sweden has gone for the second option and I can't say it's working out great and I don't like the first option either. The only thing that I'm sure of is that the deathpenalty belongs in the middle ages...
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What do you propose? We reward him with free health-care, cable TV, access to a library and gym, a place to sleep, and 3 cooked meals? Oh, yeah, and periodic conjugal visits? That's what most our tough-as-nails criminals have to contend with. That's a fair exchange for the someones life isn't it? Maybe if I kill someone in your family, you'll be as kind as to put me out of my misery, so I won't have to dwell on the fact that I was such heartless callous bastard. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Read your own reply once more. I hope you regret writing that...
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I ran across this article Pakistani political leaders ask U.S. to spare life of convicted killer Aimal Kasi[^] while perusing USAToday.com. The guy gunned down to guys in cold blood. I just don't see sparing his life to placate some angry Muslims... I'm sorry but I just don't. If the guy was an American and had done the same, I'd feel exactly the same.
He should not be killed, no-one should be. Incarcerate him for life in a small cage with only basic amenities. American, Muslim, Brit... it makes no difference either.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Rememberance knows no boundaries. Wear a poppy and uphold the silence: 10/11-Nov-2002
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Ok, so you're from Sweden. I can honestly say that Sweden is a country I know very little about. Other than what they say about the beautiful women...:rolleyes: Anyway, is the Death Penalty observed in Sweden? Here in the United States it's not observed in all States. My whole life I've always been against it... but that perception has changed over the past couple of years. At any rate, my question is really more about leniency to placate an angry Middle East, vs. "Justice" delivered without a political agenda... not really on whether the Death Penalty is humane or not. Thanks though for your opinions.
Damn, this thread will keep me upp all night... Nope, no deathpenalty in Sweden. The swedish goverment has choosen a very lenient path when dealing with crimes. It's not working out that great (IMHO) but on the other hand, we don't have much violent crime compared to for example the US. (Maybe due to restrictive regulations in other areas, such as gunlaws). Regarding your "real" question, I think you have a very interesting point there. I would argue that there can be no justice if things like how the judgement will be received by others are concidered (dp or no dp). Apart from that, the US vs Middle East is such a delicate matter right now that I think everybody needs to think atleast twice before jumping the gun... Thank god I'm only writing software for a living.
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ACTUALLY, reverting his sentence from the Death Penalty to life in prison WITHOUT THE POSSIBLITY OF PAROLE would actually be a worse punishment for him. Remember that as a muslim, he can be thinking that being sentence to death because of killing two 'infidels' is the same as dying in battle for Islam, and therefore he will automatically go to heaven where he will be awarded X number of virgins (female such I would assume) for his own amusemnt etc. etc. Alot of the people glorify death, and by executing them, we are doing them a favor. On a personal point, I would rather die, than to be incarcerated like an animal. I say let him rot in a maxium security prison for the rest of his life (oh and feed him nothing but pork) /CMH
Chris Hansson wrote: Remember that as a muslim... That has nothing to do with Islam; don't draw sterotypes of the world's largest religion from a few fanatics. Chris Hansson wrote: oh and feed him nothing but pork I should seriously hope that would violate whichever basic human rights your constitution grants you, and if not it damned well should. :|
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Rememberance knows no boundaries. Wear a poppy and uphold the silence: 10/11-Nov-2002
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I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Ummmm... :confused: If you are refering to my comment about you listening to our press and politicians it was a direct response to your comment about "the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world". I personally don't think the US society is the most advanced, nor do I remember many (if any) Americans on CP claiming such. However, if one listens to the US press or US politicians, they obviously think so. They are a smug bunch and should never be taken seriously. Christian Graus wrote: Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in Fair enough, but my real question was what kind of sentence could a double homocide killer expect in Tasmania? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Life in prison? Parole? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious what Tasmanian society deems justice/punishment for taking two lives. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
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You name the CIA as if it's a living, breathing, thing. Every individual in the CIA is just that, an individual. 2 murders are 2 murders, regardless of nationality OR what company they work for. Can I call all Muslims killers just because a few of them are crazy zealots? We have crazy religous zealots here in America too. My problem with your comment is how broad your scope is. We had a period of time where there were a rash of crazy killings in our own Postal System. However, except for a few jokes (bad ones) and the term "going postal" I certainly don't think all postal workers are deranged psychopaths.
Matt Philmon wrote: You name the CIA as if it's a living, breathing, thing. Every individual in the CIA is just that, an individual. 2 murders are 2 murders, regardless of nationality OR what company they work for. Yes, I know what CIA is, and I think it is not much better than Al Quaeda. Can you say that "Every individual in the Al Quaeda is just that, an individual"?