Want to learn something from ground up/ don't know what
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
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Those are just ways to get the job done. You need to have a passion for something or you won't get far. So - what is it you want to achieve? Who do you want to be?
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Trollslayer wrote:
Who do you want to be?
Tonight, Elaine, I'd like to be Mario Lanza.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Trollslayer wrote:
Who do you want to be?
Tonight, Elaine, I'd like to be Mario Lanza.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
The question is: do your neighbors want you to be Mario Lanza? BTW: A white Christmas is quite likely, no need to spill any dreams on the subject. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
While I agree with most here who say that the language is just a tool you use, and generally select to fit the job at hand, if it's a career you want, I'd pick a smartphone and download the development kit. These damned things aren't going to go away, they're just going to get smaller, more powerful, and more annoying, so you might as well pick something that's got a future. They all work the same way, so regardless of what language one uses, the others will look pretty much the same. And if you find that you don't like your career choice, run - don't walk - away from it. The only thing nearly as miserable as being married to the wrong partner is being stuck in a job you hate. And making it your own business won't make it any more enjoyable, I promise you.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
Gardening?
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John C wrote:
Ideally you would *want* to make *something*, that would be your passion and the language and tools to do it would all be incidental and learned along the way to making something you really like and believe in.
Well said. :thumbsup: I don't know anyone who decided to become a software engineer because they "hoped it would pay well." /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Phil Martin... wrote:
most people I know don't want to create something great or wonderful, but just want to make it to the next pay day and feed their kids and still have somewhere to live.
Yup, same thing goes on here as well and everywhere I'm sure. Most of those people that just want to make it to the next payday are people who chose (consciously or not) to live beyond their means and are paying for it year after crushing year. The real kicker is that there is a great deal of money to be made in creating something great that you truly enjoy doing and everyone would do well to take a step back and look at their lives and decide if they'd rather focus their energy towards owning cool stuff or making cool stuff.
There is no failure only feedback
It appears to me that you have limited perspective in regards to (at least) some segments of the programming community (of which I'm not a member). I work for a large company and we have LOTS of programmers who are happy doing their jobs - maintaining and extending existing code bases for important systems used in house. Some portion of them probably 'live beyond their means,' but many of them don't. They're good at what they do but may not have the vision, imagination, or desire to create something great. If you are the type that can and does do that, more power to you. I suspect that ability places you more towards the elite end of the programming spectrum, but I think you shouldn't dismiss the careers of those who probably land more towards the middle of the spectrum JMHO
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
You have to determine your target operating system first, because that will determine which languages you can choose from. If you require multiplatform. then choose a language which allows you to compile for multiple operating systems. Now if you want to primarily target Windows (Intel based CPU's) such as Vista and Windows 7, but don't require windows for mobile devices, one lesser known programming language which is quite powerful is PowerBasic. I have been using PowerBasic for about 10 years now and while it requires a good knowledge of the Windows API (which is useful when using other languages), it produces applications with no dependencies, small footprint and very fast. The Intel Atom CPU is currently taking the world by "storm" in netbooks and very likely tablet PC's before long and Powerbasic has the advantage of producing apps which will work well on such CPU's, where as the more bloat dot.net tools may not produce apps that run well on such CPU's. Technologies like DirectX may not work as well on CPU's like Atom, since they don't have as much horsepower. I have written a proprietary, software based (no DirectX), Sprite engine which flies on Atom CPU's, where as other technologies may run poorly (ie. DirectX). I am currently working on an OpenGL based graphics engine as well, which should run well on Atom CPU's, runs well on Windows 7 and even on Linux using Wine. All of it was written using PowerBasic. Sure it required learning the low level Windows and OpenGL API's, but it was worth it IMO. PowerBasic is simliar in syntax to longtime Microsoft basics (QuickBasic, PDS 7.1, Visual basic) as far as the core Basic language. You can also write all your code in either procedural style or using OOP (supports classes). I prefer a more procedural code style, since I don't like OOP much, but PowerBasic lets me write it either way. If you never heard of Powerbasic, likely you have heard ot Borlands TurboBasic. When Borland decided to stop going "head to head" with Microsoft with a Basic compiler, they sold/gave (?) back the rights to the Turbobasic compiler to its original developer, who renamed it PowerBasic. The Windows version of their compiler is very powerful.
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
For freelance work specifically, and possibly starting a (presumably small) startup, it still depends on what you have in mind. iPad/iPhone sounds like a fine choice. But if you're into some web ideas, then you'd have to pick a web platform. When I think "freelance" I usually think iPad/iPhone, web page design, and things like that. .NET/SQL is more applicable to enterprise development, I think.
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For freelance work specifically, and possibly starting a (presumably small) startup, it still depends on what you have in mind. iPad/iPhone sounds like a fine choice. But if you're into some web ideas, then you'd have to pick a web platform. When I think "freelance" I usually think iPad/iPhone, web page design, and things like that. .NET/SQL is more applicable to enterprise development, I think.
A job would be nice!
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It appears to me that you have limited perspective in regards to (at least) some segments of the programming community (of which I'm not a member). I work for a large company and we have LOTS of programmers who are happy doing their jobs - maintaining and extending existing code bases for important systems used in house. Some portion of them probably 'live beyond their means,' but many of them don't. They're good at what they do but may not have the vision, imagination, or desire to create something great. If you are the type that can and does do that, more power to you. I suspect that ability places you more towards the elite end of the programming spectrum, but I think you shouldn't dismiss the careers of those who probably land more towards the middle of the spectrum JMHO
Duke Carey wrote:
It appears to me that you have limited perspective in regards to (at least) some segments of the programming community (of which I'm not a member). I work for a large company and we have LOTS of programmers who are happy doing their jobs - maintaining and extending existing code bases for important systems used in house.
Well said. I'm a maintenance programmer too - for 37 years. I'm happy doing what I do and I do a good job at a necessary and important task. Also for 37 years, I've seen the attitude that if you don't create something new that you are a second class coder. I'm the guy who took the code written by all those developers and made it actually work or do what it was supposed to do. Both types of programmers are needed.
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It appears to me that you have limited perspective in regards to (at least) some segments of the programming community (of which I'm not a member). I work for a large company and we have LOTS of programmers who are happy doing their jobs - maintaining and extending existing code bases for important systems used in house. Some portion of them probably 'live beyond their means,' but many of them don't. They're good at what they do but may not have the vision, imagination, or desire to create something great. If you are the type that can and does do that, more power to you. I suspect that ability places you more towards the elite end of the programming spectrum, but I think you shouldn't dismiss the careers of those who probably land more towards the middle of the spectrum JMHO
It seems to me that you might have a limited perspective with human nature, I'm sure people will *say* they are happy at their jobs (particularly to someone who is not a member of their group) but ask any one of those cubicle programmers what they would be doing in an ideal world where they could do anything they imagined instead and see how many say "exactly this". Most that do (if you find any) are liars or have a terrible lack of imagination and or fear of failure / trying new things. I wasn't limiting it to programming, there are a lot of mediocre programmers out there who could be super-star chefs or utterly happy vintners or artists or photographers. Or the happiest and most in demand ditch digger in the world. Wasting years of your life doing something you find mundane and uninteresting just seems so sad. But yes, of course you are right, there are definitely people in the world satisfied with the mundane and though they are essential to any economy, they're the first to lose their jobs when they corporation they work for finds the means to automate what they do. And there is powerful incentive for the corporation to always do so. Bottom line though is I still don't believe in the practicality of learning any skill for vague impractical reasons. The human brain just doesn't work that way, there always has to be some emotional goal behind doing anything or it simply won't stick.
There is no failure only feedback
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It seems to me that you might have a limited perspective with human nature, I'm sure people will *say* they are happy at their jobs (particularly to someone who is not a member of their group) but ask any one of those cubicle programmers what they would be doing in an ideal world where they could do anything they imagined instead and see how many say "exactly this". Most that do (if you find any) are liars or have a terrible lack of imagination and or fear of failure / trying new things. I wasn't limiting it to programming, there are a lot of mediocre programmers out there who could be super-star chefs or utterly happy vintners or artists or photographers. Or the happiest and most in demand ditch digger in the world. Wasting years of your life doing something you find mundane and uninteresting just seems so sad. But yes, of course you are right, there are definitely people in the world satisfied with the mundane and though they are essential to any economy, they're the first to lose their jobs when they corporation they work for finds the means to automate what they do. And there is powerful incentive for the corporation to always do so. Bottom line though is I still don't believe in the practicality of learning any skill for vague impractical reasons. The human brain just doesn't work that way, there always has to be some emotional goal behind doing anything or it simply won't stick.
There is no failure only feedback
You raise several good points. My primary counter to your statements is that there are quite a variety of 'passions' that won't pay the bills or, worse, actually require a constant source of money. Case in point: My son is an avid, or perhaps rabid, mountain biker. He works at a job that he views as a means to provide him the money to pursue his passion. He'll never be good enough to garner ANY sponsorships - he's one of tens of thousands at his skill level - but he LOVES IT. Your comments suggest you've had a happy confluence of passion and paying professional ability. Count your lucky stars and your blessings. It's a relatively small percentage of the population that has experienced that, and you are truly fortunate to be one of the few. From reading the Code Project boards, I'd guess the population here probably skews more towards that fortunate few, but that is far from what most people experience. They have circustances to deal with that require them to pay the bills - mortgages, children, spouses, medical bills, looming retirement, etc., and taking a job - or preparing themselves for a job - at which they are qualified and that meets those needs makes the most sense to them. I wouldn't belittle them or their choices. What you view as mundane may be very gratifying to them Also, take a look at Earl's comments, above
modified on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:00 PM
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Hello everyone, I would like to start learning some language from ground up and have a pretty good knowledge about it and do freelance work and maybe in the future build a start-up company. Keeping in mind the technology trends, what do you think would be the best investment for such an adventure. Some options i have in mind are: iPhone programming, Silverlight, .Net etc. Can you give me some insight on this. Thank you all
Object Pascal is easy to understand and easy to learn and easy to use well, but it would probably not provide the best basis for a business today. Everyone should know the other Hejlsberg brainstorm, C#. Expertise with that would give you immediate "acceptance" and "legitimacy" in a business setting. C++ should be in your repertoire. It should be added sooner rather than later so that you will not be poisoned by the ease of other languages in comparison. One can do anything using C++. Hello World is easy with any tool, but after that, prepare to climb the mountain. The good news is that everyone that has responded to your question is right up ahead, clinging to one escarpment or another, looking for the next place to put their brain.....you can do it too.
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C#. That will allow you to make use of the .Net Framework and Silverlight. That will allow you to be very productive and will allow you to target a wide user base. Of course, that's simplifying things a bit. But by going the C# route you can't go wrong. Well, you can... and probably will... but no more wrong than any other route. ;P
aspdotnetdev wrote:
C#. That will allow you to make use of the .Net Framework and Silverlight. That will allow you to be very productive and will allow you to target a wide user base.
I had some time to reflect on what others have said and even though i was thinking of a lot of alternatives which might have a future such as iPhone development, i don't think that's what i would like to do and it was a great feedback for me that i should go with what i like to do. I have always been interested in the .Net framework and c# and in these days i have started exploring a bit Silverlight. Again considering other feedback that the tool is just the means to get what i really want, i believe i enjoy building games and puzzles. Therefore i might try mobile development, maybe Windows Phone 7 to also take advantage of c#.
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What's your passion? What would you do for free if you could? What topics get you excited? Bear in mind that technology trends tend to be irrelevant when you're learning; they come and go far too quickly to be relevant when you're new to the game. Don't limit yourself to computing. One of the things you'll find among most of the denizens of the Lounge is that they have wide ranging interests, and it's a thirst for knowledge that separates the jobbing developer from the good developer.
I'm not a stalker, I just know things. Oh by the way, you're out of milk.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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You raise several good points. My primary counter to your statements is that there are quite a variety of 'passions' that won't pay the bills or, worse, actually require a constant source of money. Case in point: My son is an avid, or perhaps rabid, mountain biker. He works at a job that he views as a means to provide him the money to pursue his passion. He'll never be good enough to garner ANY sponsorships - he's one of tens of thousands at his skill level - but he LOVES IT. Your comments suggest you've had a happy confluence of passion and paying professional ability. Count your lucky stars and your blessings. It's a relatively small percentage of the population that has experienced that, and you are truly fortunate to be one of the few. From reading the Code Project boards, I'd guess the population here probably skews more towards that fortunate few, but that is far from what most people experience. They have circustances to deal with that require them to pay the bills - mortgages, children, spouses, medical bills, looming retirement, etc., and taking a job - or preparing themselves for a job - at which they are qualified and that meets those needs makes the most sense to them. I wouldn't belittle them or their choices. What you view as mundane may be very gratifying to them Also, take a look at Earl's comments, above
modified on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:00 PM
Duke Carey wrote:
there are quite a variety of 'passions' that won't pay the bills or, worse, actually require a constant source of money
Unless the passion is spending money I can't agree, there is *always* a way to make money off any passion it just takes imagination and hard work.
Duke Carey wrote:
Your comments suggest you've had a happy confluence of passion and paying professional ability. Count your lucky stars and your blessings.
It's not a *blessing*, it's not luck, it's a lot of careful thinking and planning and damned hard work, far more than if I were working in a cubicle somewhere writing code 9 to 5. It's years of crushing long hours and sacrifice that is only now starting to pay dividends. And there's nothing else I'd rather be doing.
Duke Carey wrote:
I wouldn't belittle them or their choices.
I certainly don't, if they truly feel happy doing it there's nothing in the world I would wish otherwise. The trouble is I've been there and nearly everyone I know is there and very few of them find what they do gratifying, they simply endure. Every one of them has a hobby or something they enjoy far more than their source of income but they simply are unwilling to trade the safety and certainty they enjoy now for the unknown.
Duke Carey wrote:
Also, take a look at Earl's comments, above
I *am* Earl in my company, there are very few developers here and we wouldn't have a place for a developer who only does maintenance work. I was invited for an interview many years ago working in a cubicle farm for Systemhouse and I turned it down because I knew I would go crazy in a cubicle working on someone else's project.
There is no failure only feedback
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aspdotnetdev wrote:
C#. That will allow you to make use of the .Net Framework and Silverlight. That will allow you to be very productive and will allow you to target a wide user base.
I had some time to reflect on what others have said and even though i was thinking of a lot of alternatives which might have a future such as iPhone development, i don't think that's what i would like to do and it was a great feedback for me that i should go with what i like to do. I have always been interested in the .Net framework and c# and in these days i have started exploring a bit Silverlight. Again considering other feedback that the tool is just the means to get what i really want, i believe i enjoy building games and puzzles. Therefore i might try mobile development, maybe Windows Phone 7 to also take advantage of c#.
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Duke Carey wrote:
there are quite a variety of 'passions' that won't pay the bills or, worse, actually require a constant source of money
Unless the passion is spending money I can't agree, there is *always* a way to make money off any passion it just takes imagination and hard work.
Duke Carey wrote:
Your comments suggest you've had a happy confluence of passion and paying professional ability. Count your lucky stars and your blessings.
It's not a *blessing*, it's not luck, it's a lot of careful thinking and planning and damned hard work, far more than if I were working in a cubicle somewhere writing code 9 to 5. It's years of crushing long hours and sacrifice that is only now starting to pay dividends. And there's nothing else I'd rather be doing.
Duke Carey wrote:
I wouldn't belittle them or their choices.
I certainly don't, if they truly feel happy doing it there's nothing in the world I would wish otherwise. The trouble is I've been there and nearly everyone I know is there and very few of them find what they do gratifying, they simply endure. Every one of them has a hobby or something they enjoy far more than their source of income but they simply are unwilling to trade the safety and certainty they enjoy now for the unknown.
Duke Carey wrote:
Also, take a look at Earl's comments, above
I *am* Earl in my company, there are very few developers here and we wouldn't have a place for a developer who only does maintenance work. I was invited for an interview many years ago working in a cubicle farm for Systemhouse and I turned it down because I knew I would go crazy in a cubicle working on someone else's project.
There is no failure only feedback
John - I've enjoyed this exchange of ideas and respect your viewpoint. I may lack vision and imagination, but I don't see how my son could make money from his mountain biking passion. It helps that I also know how little discipline he has and suspect rather strongly that if he, say, started a store specializing in mountain bikes, components, etc., he'd either be bankrupt in short order or he'd be very unhappy because the demands of that store would keep him from riding. I understand and respect the points you make but, in your words:
John C wrote:
damned hard work, far more than if I were working in a cubicle somewhere writing code 9 to 5. It's years of crushing long hours and sacrifice that is only now starting to pay dividends
and many folks are predisposed to selling their time working in the cubicle farm so that they can then enjoy their passion outside the work arena.
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John - I've enjoyed this exchange of ideas and respect your viewpoint. I may lack vision and imagination, but I don't see how my son could make money from his mountain biking passion. It helps that I also know how little discipline he has and suspect rather strongly that if he, say, started a store specializing in mountain bikes, components, etc., he'd either be bankrupt in short order or he'd be very unhappy because the demands of that store would keep him from riding. I understand and respect the points you make but, in your words:
John C wrote:
damned hard work, far more than if I were working in a cubicle somewhere writing code 9 to 5. It's years of crushing long hours and sacrifice that is only now starting to pay dividends
and many folks are predisposed to selling their time working in the cubicle farm so that they can then enjoy their passion outside the work arena.
Duke Carey wrote:
It helps that I also know how little discipline he has
It might be some comfort to you to know that my dad would have described me *exactly* that way at an early point in my life. :)
Duke Carey wrote:
and many folks are predisposed to selling their time working in the cubicle farm so that they can then enjoy their passion outside the work arena
After a decade of doing this, many times with 12 hour work days for long stretches I was finally able to shift all work to the months between September and March and take the summers off, every summer for 4 years now and pursue a large number of passions aside from programming. I made a conscious decision to favor time off over getting rich. If I were another person I might have a big boat, big house an expensive sports car and a big mortgage and crushing debts and barely any time to enjoy those things. As long as I have the basic essentials of life and can do what I please with my time I'm happy. I too enjoyed our conversation, cheers!
There is no failure only feedback
