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Jason Henderson wrote: There is no proof either way. Did you ever consider that your thought could be wrong? Well, I can't proof it. But if I am wrong, God would be up there right now, wouldn't he? Can't you just tell him to come by me and tell me that he really exist. Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Maybe you should ask him yourself. :|
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Maybe you should ask him yourself. :|
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: Maybe you should ask him yourself First of all I want to believe it before I ask "someone". Second, I can't believe it! :|:~ Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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Jason Henderson wrote: Maybe you should ask him yourself First of all I want to believe it before I ask "someone". Second, I can't believe it! :|:~ Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
You're still young, just think about it more before you completely write it off. You may be surprised what you believe in a few years from now.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Paul Watson wrote: If there was no before, then how come there is a now? I can't explain that. Time is one of those things so fundamental to me that i can't wrap my head around the idea of an existance - or a conciousness - without it playing a major role. There are people who sit and ponder concepts such as the entire Universe expanding from a point in all dimensions, time expanding just as the rest thus making questions such as "how long did it take" moot. I am not one of those people, and though i'll cheerfully take my hat off and salute them (assuming i'm wearing a hat; though i guess i could put one on, in a pinch, if required...), i'm not gonna fret about the things in life that i can't understand. Paul Watson wrote: I am an innocent angel who never does anything bad, so that question does not worry me... Well then, Paul, what *were* you doing, in detail please. ;P
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Shog9 Life seems pretty easy when it's from my easy chair And you're burnin up inside and no one cares...
Shog9 wrote: There are people who sit and ponder concepts such as the entire Universe expanding from a point in all dimensions, The other day I was picturing some folks sitting around a billion years from now, contemplating their ever shrinking universe. How much time is left and what will happen when it collapses back in on itself? Can we stop it? Why is shrinking, and how did all this stuff just become? maybe the universe is a big pulsing blob. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Serious answer? "God is God - and I am not. I can only see a part of the picture he's painting" * That's probably the best explanation any of us humans with finite minds will ever be able to come up with, till death anyway. :) * if anyone can tell me who said that I'll hand over my precious kudo's from the CP newsletter testing yesterday to them :cool:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
Steven Curtis Chapman. Kudos to Google. :) I've never heard of the bloke. J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? Who made God ? I think the problem is that the nature of human life makes us believe in transience. It is outside our realm of understanding that there could always have been a God. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
I'm sorry Paul, but I think your question cannot be answered unless you resort to religion (which I can't for personal reasons). Considering that we can't fully grasp the Universe, how could we ever understand what was before, outside or after? I think that even religion can't answer the before, outside and after questions. Some religions even prohibit those questions! -- This space for rent.
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
This is probably a little late, but i'm gonna give it a go anyway :) My theory is that time is a force. And force, as we know it, cannot be destroyed or created.Which I guess kinda makes time infinite. Whenever a universe is born, it's simply time converting some of it's energy into a different form, and vice versa.And there would be enough universe collapsing that we wouldn't have to worry about "running out of time" A little abstract, I know, but so am I :) Notorious SMC
Vb is as VB does
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Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Yes. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Or even better: YES I hope somebody gets my joke. Brad Jennings
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Paul Watson wrote: Talk about taking me out of context! Well, actually not! You asked about how everything could be what it is, how everything was "born". And then you mentioned that God theory. So I said my word! :) Paul Watson wrote: I was not asking about God. And evolution does not disprove God in anyway That can be your thought! But think back, do you belive there is a guy in heaven who watching you all the time? Why can't we see, hear or know him if so? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Rickard Andersson wrote: But think back, do you belive there is a guy in heaven who watching you all the time? Why can't we see, hear or know him if so? Well I don't believe in God either, not anymore. But I can categorically state that evolution does not disprove God. A lot of religious people actually do believe in evolution. They believe God created the universe and then through what he created evolution started and we ended up here.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Paul Watson wrote: What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? Who made God ? I think the problem is that the nature of human life makes us believe in transience. It is outside our realm of understanding that there could always have been a God. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: It is outside our realm of understanding that there could always have been a God. Well I believe we can grasp enough to understand at least a bit of the creation. Even so all of this "creation" talk is meaningless because creation requires a creator. You say "there could always", but always is a time dependant concept. Always requies a passage of time to fit the always in to. Take this as the proper question; If there was no before, then how come there is a now?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Paul Watson wrote: If there was no before, then how come there is a now? I can't explain that. Time is one of those things so fundamental to me that i can't wrap my head around the idea of an existance - or a conciousness - without it playing a major role. There are people who sit and ponder concepts such as the entire Universe expanding from a point in all dimensions, time expanding just as the rest thus making questions such as "how long did it take" moot. I am not one of those people, and though i'll cheerfully take my hat off and salute them (assuming i'm wearing a hat; though i guess i could put one on, in a pinch, if required...), i'm not gonna fret about the things in life that i can't understand. Paul Watson wrote: I am an innocent angel who never does anything bad, so that question does not worry me... Well then, Paul, what *were* you doing, in detail please. ;P
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Shog9 Life seems pretty easy when it's from my easy chair And you're burnin up inside and no one cares...
Shog9 wrote: Time is one of those things so fundamental to me that i can't wrap my head around the idea of an existance - or a conciousness - without it playing a major role I understand and totally agree. Funny how we created these concepts to understand things better and have now progressed to a stage where we cannot function without these concepts. I never really expected an answer when I asked this question. I still like to ask it though, look at all the responses and differing ideas! :) Shog9 wrote: i'm not gonna fret about the things in life that i can't understand. I don't fret or worry to the point of it negatively affecting my life. Ask anyone I know and they will say I am the most un-worried person they have ever met. But I do think about these things and it puts a grin on my face to even try and contemplate them. Shog9 wrote: Well then, Paul, what *were* you doing, in detail please. Well she was, err, umm, in the lotus position and I was chanting the tantric mantra when BLAM!... :~ :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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We know now much more than we did even a year ago, let alone 1000 years ago. We consistantly prove ourselves wrong, and gain new insights. there are only a few options that I can concieve: First, based on our current knowledge we assume that the universe is a describable system. What if that's not even the case all of the time. I've heard recently about small percentages of matter that are unaccounted for during nuclear explosions. this brings big questions to a basic principle of matter is neither created nor destroyed. (still searching to verify this). What if things have changed so much over history that the data we use now to describe the beginning is unusable? Second, somehow we determine that the only feasible origin is an outside force. What if God caused this initial reaction, and it is completely explained through science? Then the Big bang folks will have thought they won, and the true God folks will really have the truth. Either way we still have no consensus do we? (ie. not much different than today) or Third, God comes down and gathers the population in an enormous arena, and begins to explain what happened, and how things work. Well, even with obvious evidence here, many will not believe in God, writing Him off as mass hallucination. (back to divided camps of theory) I've got my thoughts, which make some sense to me (somewhere in option 2), but its all made up really. I guess it comes down to the truth on this is sort of useless, because regardless of the facts people will tend to believe what they want anyway. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: I've got my thoughts, which make some sense to me (somewhere in option 2), but its all made up really Do share :) Thanks for the other answers, all very interesting. I never expected a serious, "This Is The Answer" reply, but thanks for the serious responses :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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I'm sorry Paul, but I think your question cannot be answered unless you resort to religion (which I can't for personal reasons). Considering that we can't fully grasp the Universe, how could we ever understand what was before, outside or after? I think that even religion can't answer the before, outside and after questions. Some religions even prohibit those questions! -- This space for rent.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Some religions even prohibit those questions! Which is highly dodgy IMO. Any belief, religion, theory etc. which forbids exploring certain aspects of it is trying to hide a fatal flaw. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I'm sorry Paul, but I think your question cannot be answered unless you resort to religion (which I can't for personal reasons). I assume by "personal reasons" you mean you are not religious and are "against" it. Don't you think it odd that you are not religious yet believe the only explanation for the creation of our universe is through religion? Anyway, I also don't think we can answer the question yet...
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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This is probably a little late, but i'm gonna give it a go anyway :) My theory is that time is a force. And force, as we know it, cannot be destroyed or created.Which I guess kinda makes time infinite. Whenever a universe is born, it's simply time converting some of it's energy into a different form, and vice versa.And there would be enough universe collapsing that we wouldn't have to worry about "running out of time" A little abstract, I know, but so am I :) Notorious SMC
Vb is as VB does
Notorious SMC wrote: And force, as we know it, cannot be destroyed or created.Which I guess kinda makes time infinite Yes but where did it come from? "It has always been" is not an answer IMO. That whole "matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed" concept also causes me trouble. It is a handy concept in our present universe but not something which fits into how we think about things, i.e. that things are created before they can be. Anyway, thanks for the answer, and you are never too late! :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Rickard Andersson wrote: But think back, do you belive there is a guy in heaven who watching you all the time? Why can't we see, hear or know him if so? Well I don't believe in God either, not anymore. But I can categorically state that evolution does not disprove God. A lot of religious people actually do believe in evolution. They believe God created the universe and then through what he created evolution started and we ended up here.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: A lot of religious people actually do believe in evolution. They believe God created the universe and then through what he created evolution started and we ended up here. Thats a pretty good thought! I like it and if there was a God before who/which created everything, how the heck did he became God? damn... this will never get its answers... But I don't think there is a God nowdays... Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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You're still young, just think about it more before you completely write it off. You may be surprised what you believe in a few years from now.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: just think about it more before you completely write it off I think a Mr Christian G came into your body now... :cool: But I will listen to your words! From now, I'm a new MEN!!! Proud for being who I am!! Proud for... :-D Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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Paul Watson wrote: Talk about taking me out of context! Well, actually not! You asked about how everything could be what it is, how everything was "born". And then you mentioned that God theory. So I said my word! :) Paul Watson wrote: I was not asking about God. And evolution does not disprove God in anyway That can be your thought! But think back, do you belive there is a guy in heaven who watching you all the time? Why can't we see, hear or know him if so? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
But think back, do you belive there is a guy in heaven who watching you all the time? Why can't we see, hear or know him if so? God is beyond the scope of man. We cannot detect God with any of our 5 senses. The only real evidence that God could exist is the Bible. I used to think somewhat the same as yourself, but realized that, even though we don't know if God exists, I don't want to live my life with my back turned to the idea of God and then find out that God does exist when I die. Belief in God is not just an explaination of how and why we are here but it is a way of life. I figure, if God doesn't exist, I at least have something to live by. Anyway, this is just my opinion. As I write this post, I am reminded of the scene from the movie "Stargate" when the people find out that their entire religion is a hoax. Every time I think of it I wonder what must have been going through their minds at that moment (theoretically speaking, it is a movie after all) or what that would feel like if it were any one of us... Brad Jennings If God is a hoax, it is the biggest hoax in the history of man.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Some religions even prohibit those questions! Which is highly dodgy IMO. Any belief, religion, theory etc. which forbids exploring certain aspects of it is trying to hide a fatal flaw. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I'm sorry Paul, but I think your question cannot be answered unless you resort to religion (which I can't for personal reasons). I assume by "personal reasons" you mean you are not religious and are "against" it. Don't you think it odd that you are not religious yet believe the only explanation for the creation of our universe is through religion? Anyway, I also don't think we can answer the question yet...
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: I assume by "personal reasons" you mean you are not religious and are "against" it. I'm not religious because I've not seen any evidence of a so called higher power. I follow those who explain it all through science. However, if this higher power shows itself, then I'll change my mind. Paul Watson wrote: Don't you think it odd that you are not religious yet believe the only explanation for the creation of our universe is through religion? I don't believe that the only explanation is based in religion. However, the only explanation any human can understand is the one that religion provides. I'm not so sure we can intellectually deal with anything outside our universe. I may be wrong :) -- This space for rent.