Refactoring...
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This looks like a cool tool: Refactory for C#[^] But my question is, why would you do something like that? What's the purpose of refactoring. They show some examples, but it seems to me that there would be a lot of work in taking the code and moving it to a new method. Work that a plug-in couldn't do and that only a human could.
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET
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This looks like a cool tool: Refactory for C#[^] But my question is, why would you do something like that? What's the purpose of refactoring. They show some examples, but it seems to me that there would be a lot of work in taking the code and moving it to a new method. Work that a plug-in couldn't do and that only a human could.
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET
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*sigh* More of this "we can solve the problems of the programming world" garbage. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: *sigh* More of this "we can solve the problems of the programming world" garbage. Why the sigh? Because the problem is insoluble (surely not)? Or because it's garbage (what would you do)?
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
This looks like a cool tool: Refactory for C#[^] But my question is, why would you do something like that? What's the purpose of refactoring. They show some examples, but it seems to me that there would be a lot of work in taking the code and moving it to a new method. Work that a plug-in couldn't do and that only a human could.
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET
David Stone wrote: Work that a plug-in couldn't do and that only a human could. True. Not to mention the huge amount of satisfaction that can be gained from taking spade, axe and scalpel to a tangled, redundant mess of code. But still, there are enough tedious little tasks that need to be performed often, and have potential for careless errors… C# Refactory lists the following features: Extract Method Rename Type Rename Member Rename Parameter Rename Local Variable All but Extract Method are things i'd normally do manually, or with search and replace; having a tool smart enough to speed that up a little would be nice, so long as it didn’t make mistakes itself when deciding what to rename. But obviously, this isn’t gonna do the work for you - you still need to make the calls on what to move / rename / delete... And who would want it any other way! :)
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Shog9 Life seems pretty easy when it's from my easy chair And you're burnin up inside and no one cares...
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Tim Smith wrote: *sigh* More of this "we can solve the problems of the programming world" garbage. Why the sigh? Because the problem is insoluble (surely not)? Or because it's garbage (what would you do)?
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
*sigh* More of this "we can solve the problems of the programming world" garbage. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
*sigh* More of this "we know everything already and dont need to learn anything knew" garbage. or, at thats how it appears when people bag something that they very obviously haven't spent any time checking out. Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
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Nothing replaces being a competent programmer with a clue. You can't write mounds of crap and then send it through some magical box that will produce something other than... crap. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Nothing replaces being a competent programmer with a clue. You can't write mounds of crap and then send it through some magical box that will produce something other than... crap. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: Nothing replaces being a competent programmer with a clue. Of course not. But 1) how do you become a competent programmer and 2) competent programmers will *always* have a really good toolkit. I haven't had a close look at the site but it looks like just another tool, simple as that. Whether or not it's a good tool and does its job well is another question but there's nothing wrong with it in itself. A good idea, in fact, IMO.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
Tim Smith wrote: Nothing replaces being a competent programmer with a clue. Of course not. But 1) how do you become a competent programmer and 2) competent programmers will *always* have a really good toolkit. I haven't had a close look at the site but it looks like just another tool, simple as that. Whether or not it's a good tool and does its job well is another question but there's nothing wrong with it in itself. A good idea, in fact, IMO.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.competent programmers will *always* have a really good toolkit. Garbage in -> Garbage out programs aren't really good tools. The are just "refactor" the garbage into another form. Tools don't make a programmer, they enhance them. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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This looks like a cool tool: Refactory for C#[^] But my question is, why would you do something like that? What's the purpose of refactoring. They show some examples, but it seems to me that there would be a lot of work in taking the code and moving it to a new method. Work that a plug-in couldn't do and that only a human could.
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET
After looking at their examples, I would say they have succeeded in extreme simplicity. Extreme simplicity = useless What garbage. Everything is done manually, and it's nothing more than glorified cut&paste and search&replace functions. The darn thing can't even automatically extract loop elements and create functions. That might be marginally useful. "Rename Local Variable". Oh, please. If these examples are the "best" of their product, well... enough said. Taka (see post above yours) has some kind words for refactoring and a fellow by the name of Martin Fowler. Ask Taka for an explanation. I can't give you an unbiased one. On a totally different topic--how's the weather in SD? We just got socked with 8 inches of snow in Rhode Island. Too bad it fell in the afternoon and evening. It would have been a great excuse to cancel school and not go in to work! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus -
How does one become a competent programmer then? Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
By actually programming and not using 1000 mind numbed tools that try to hide the realities of programming from you because some bozo who can't program decided that it just wasn't "safe" to allow you to program properly. Nothing replaces experience. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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competent programmers will *always* have a really good toolkit. Garbage in -> Garbage out programs aren't really good tools. The are just "refactor" the garbage into another form. Tools don't make a programmer, they enhance them. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: Tools don't make a programmer, they enhance them. Again, of course. My question is, why is this refactoring tool inherently such a bad thing? In the hands of a "competent programmer", wouldn't it actually be a very useful thing to have?
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
Tim Smith wrote: Nothing replaces being a competent programmer with a clue. Of course not. But 1) how do you become a competent programmer and 2) competent programmers will *always* have a really good toolkit. I haven't had a close look at the site but it looks like just another tool, simple as that. Whether or not it's a good tool and does its job well is another question but there's nothing wrong with it in itself. A good idea, in fact, IMO.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.Hi Taka! Did you feel the tremors??? I just sent this email to their sales people (no, I don't show any mercy): To Whom It May Concern, I looked at the examples on your web site, and I would definitely say this product is garbage. In fact, I would say that it besmirches the concept of refactoring. The examples you give are pathetic. Your product I nothing more than glorified cut&paste and search&replace functions. Heavens, you don’t even automate loop function replacement. That would at least give you some justification for your “Rename Type” search and replace function. Basically, you provide keyboard shortcuts that are simply different. Please remove this product from the market. It is pathetic. Marc Clifton Consultant Knowledge Automation Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus -
*sigh* More of this "we know everything already and dont need to learn anything knew" garbage. or, at thats how it appears when people bag something that they very obviously haven't spent any time checking out. Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
Then tell me what grand thing this tool does that actually IMPROVES the code? What does it do? Ooo it creates new routines. What about the documentation for those routines? You do actually document your code, don't you? Maybe that is why you need tools like this because you lack the self control to actually do it right to start with. You would rather waste money on salary and tools AFTER the fact. Silly if you ask me. It also renames silly variables. Why in the **** do you have silly names to begin with? Why not name them properly from the start? Everything this program tries to "correct" are all BAD PROGRAMMING practices. Chances are, if you really need to use this tool, then your software has more significant problems than just this. Like I said, garbage in, garbage out. Nothing replaces doing it right from the start. It costs more money to come in after the fact and clean up the mess. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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By actually programming and not using 1000 mind numbed tools that try to hide the realities of programming from you because some bozo who can't program decided that it just wasn't "safe" to allow you to program properly. Nothing replaces experience. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: By actually programming and not using 1000 mind numbed tools that try to hide the realities of programming from Do you use Visual Studio? There are a lot of people who reckon that it's a "mind numbed tool" and prefer Vi or emacs. I've heard this argument x times before. If it was really taken seriously, no one would be programming high level languages, we'd all still be flipping switches, or punching cards. Tim Smith wrote: because some bozo who can't program decided that it just wasn't "safe" to allow you to program properly. Isn't that part of what a compiler does? It checks your code to make sure you are programming properly. So whats wrong with another tool that makes it easier to program? Tim Smith wrote: Nothing replaces experience. Agreed. But why shouldnt I use a tool that safely allows me to automatically rename a variable throughout a program instead of sifting through a thousand lines of code? Why shouldnt I be able to automate the repetitive tasks in programming using a tool? Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
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Tim Smith wrote: Tools don't make a programmer, they enhance them. Again, of course. My question is, why is this refactoring tool inherently such a bad thing? In the hands of a "competent programmer", wouldn't it actually be a very useful thing to have?
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.The tool isn't inherently bad. It is just that it has little or no value. It helps to cover up the real problem of programmers with little or no self control or talent. Tools like this do not improve code quality (IMHO) because if you need a tool like this, the software has more significant problems. Renaming a few variables and making a few new routines will not help. These tools are just marketing hype and panaceas. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Hi Taka! Did you feel the tremors??? I just sent this email to their sales people (no, I don't show any mercy): To Whom It May Concern, I looked at the examples on your web site, and I would definitely say this product is garbage. In fact, I would say that it besmirches the concept of refactoring. The examples you give are pathetic. Your product I nothing more than glorified cut&paste and search&replace functions. Heavens, you don’t even automate loop function replacement. That would at least give you some justification for your “Rename Type” search and replace function. Basically, you provide keyboard shortcuts that are simply different. Please remove this product from the market. It is pathetic. Marc Clifton Consultant Knowledge Automation Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus -
Tim Smith wrote: By actually programming and not using 1000 mind numbed tools that try to hide the realities of programming from Do you use Visual Studio? There are a lot of people who reckon that it's a "mind numbed tool" and prefer Vi or emacs. I've heard this argument x times before. If it was really taken seriously, no one would be programming high level languages, we'd all still be flipping switches, or punching cards. Tim Smith wrote: because some bozo who can't program decided that it just wasn't "safe" to allow you to program properly. Isn't that part of what a compiler does? It checks your code to make sure you are programming properly. So whats wrong with another tool that makes it easier to program? Tim Smith wrote: Nothing replaces experience. Agreed. But why shouldnt I use a tool that safely allows me to automatically rename a variable throughout a program instead of sifting through a thousand lines of code? Why shouldnt I be able to automate the repetitive tasks in programming using a tool? Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
safely allows me to automatically rename a variable Does it really? Would you not still test the new changes? Wouldn't you still do a desk check to make sure it hasn't screwed up your code? So really, what has it saved you? Of course, if you aren't going to test the changes or visually verify that the tool hasn't hacked up your code, then just use a global file replace. It is just as safe. FYI: I use VC7 :P But I don't use the class factory because it made me less productive. I don't see the logic in using the new fad tools when I end up being less productive. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Hi Taka! Did you feel the tremors??? I just sent this email to their sales people (no, I don't show any mercy): To Whom It May Concern, I looked at the examples on your web site, and I would definitely say this product is garbage. In fact, I would say that it besmirches the concept of refactoring. The examples you give are pathetic. Your product I nothing more than glorified cut&paste and search&replace functions. Heavens, you don’t even automate loop function replacement. That would at least give you some justification for your “Rename Type” search and replace function. Basically, you provide keyboard shortcuts that are simply different. Please remove this product from the market. It is pathetic. Marc Clifton Consultant Knowledge Automation Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus -
The tool isn't inherently bad. It is just that it has little or no value. It helps to cover up the real problem of programmers with little or no self control or talent. Tools like this do not improve code quality (IMHO) because if you need a tool like this, the software has more significant problems. Renaming a few variables and making a few new routines will not help. These tools are just marketing hype and panaceas. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: It helps to cover up the real problem of programmers with little or no self control or talent Well, perhaps "fix" rather than "cover up". But that's the whole intent (or a lot of it) with tools like this. Tim Smith wrote: These tools are just marketing hype and panaceas. Maybe some of them are and maybe some of them aren't. Like I said, I haven't had a close look at the site but I think Marc Clifton has already decided... :-)
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.