Newsletter Article, Programming Isn't Fun Anymore [modified]
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Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
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Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
Please use the return key. That one paragraph was a tricky one to read because it was just one solid block of text and it became difficult for me to concentrate on the text itself.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Please use the return key. That one paragraph was a tricky one to read because it was just one solid block of text and it became difficult for me to concentrate on the text itself.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Sorry, my rambling got the best of me. Fixed.
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Please use the return key. That one paragraph was a tricky one to read because it was just one solid block of text and it became difficult for me to concentrate on the text itself.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
The
Returnkey isn't available in his chosen language.".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
The
Returnkey isn't available in his chosen language.".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Sorry, my rambling got the best of me. Fixed.
Thank you. I can read it now.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
I've been doing this for over 30 years. Imagine how I must feel... You can't possibly become intimately familiar with every nuance of every language and/or framework. The best you can hope for is to become extremely good at what's currently putting beans on the table, and if the need arises, go with the flow and learn whatever else you need to learn as you need to learn it. It's called "adaptation". The nature of computer work is change. Embrace it, or die.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Frustration had driven me to the precipice, but since then I have Returned.
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Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
craigsaboe wrote:
is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else.
That's why I never build stuff for clients in new tech. I'd rather we spent some time playing around R&Ding with a particular technology, rather than trying it out on the clients. By doing this, there's less pressure on you to lever code into solving one part of a particular problem - instead, you can spend time trying to get a broader understanding of how things work and what you need to do. This is why it took us 18 months from starting to play around with WPF to actually using it on a daily basis with our clients. Basically, never try out new tech on clients - it's only going to end up blowing up in both your faces.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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I've been doing this for over 30 years. Imagine how I must feel... You can't possibly become intimately familiar with every nuance of every language and/or framework. The best you can hope for is to become extremely good at what's currently putting beans on the table, and if the need arises, go with the flow and learn whatever else you need to learn as you need to learn it. It's called "adaptation". The nature of computer work is change. Embrace it, or die.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Embrace it, or die
You know, when you say that, I can't help imagining a gravelly voice and crosshairs.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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I've been doing this for over 30 years. Imagine how I must feel... You can't possibly become intimately familiar with every nuance of every language and/or framework. The best you can hope for is to become extremely good at what's currently putting beans on the table, and if the need arises, go with the flow and learn whatever else you need to learn as you need to learn it. It's called "adaptation". The nature of computer work is change. Embrace it, or die.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I very much agree, when you have a singular situation that gives you your beans. However, when you have multiple bean providers, even just two, you are often guaranteed an unholy mixture of build engines, compilers, operating systems, databases, and languages themselves. Or even with a singular stack, as Mr. Bradford put it much more eloquently than me, you can still find yourself dealing with completely different toolsets on different projects within the same company. And if one uses version 2.7 of a compiler, and another uses 3.1, you get to play "what did they change?" and "would it break the build?" when you get an error. I know very well this is the nature of the beast... however, even if I'm married that doesn't preclude me from *****ing about the significant other.
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craigsaboe wrote:
is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else.
That's why I never build stuff for clients in new tech. I'd rather we spent some time playing around R&Ding with a particular technology, rather than trying it out on the clients. By doing this, there's less pressure on you to lever code into solving one part of a particular problem - instead, you can spend time trying to get a broader understanding of how things work and what you need to do. This is why it took us 18 months from starting to play around with WPF to actually using it on a daily basis with our clients. Basically, never try out new tech on clients - it's only going to end up blowing up in both your faces.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
If I could, that would be what I would do. However, consulting work doesn't afford you that luxury. And it is my own fault obviously for going this route rather than going corporate and having nice two-year project lengths. But we're passionate about the work we're doing for NPOs, and will deal with their disparate environments until we can finish building out our "in-the-box" product that we can host and make this problem go away.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Embrace it, or die
You know, when you say that, I can't help imagining a gravelly voice and crosshairs.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
I think "gravelly voice and knife at your neck" is a more appropriate visage.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
If I could, that would be what I would do. However, consulting work doesn't afford you that luxury. And it is my own fault obviously for going this route rather than going corporate and having nice two-year project lengths. But we're passionate about the work we're doing for NPOs, and will deal with their disparate environments until we can finish building out our "in-the-box" product that we can host and make this problem go away.
craigsaboe wrote:
However, consulting work doesn't afford you that luxury
That's a problem with the way the consultancy works. I run a consultancy, and my comments are based on personal experience.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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craigsaboe wrote:
However, consulting work doesn't afford you that luxury
That's a problem with the way the consultancy works. I run a consultancy, and my comments are based on personal experience.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
So how do you deal with the disparate setups of your clients? Do you take on only clients who allow you to use that platform, or are your solutions such that you can "play nice" with whatever they're running (i.e get a VM with your environment or something)? Or something else I'm missing?
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I've been doing this for over 30 years. Imagine how I must feel... You can't possibly become intimately familiar with every nuance of every language and/or framework. The best you can hope for is to become extremely good at what's currently putting beans on the table, and if the need arises, go with the flow and learn whatever else you need to learn as you need to learn it. It's called "adaptation". The nature of computer work is change. Embrace it, or die.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Embrace it, or die
Seems like you abandoned VB.NET in favor of PHP now... :-D
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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So how do you deal with the disparate setups of your clients? Do you take on only clients who allow you to use that platform, or are your solutions such that you can "play nice" with whatever they're running (i.e get a VM with your environment or something)? Or something else I'm missing?
Well, we mainly do desktop development for clients. Our particular niche is such that the environments tend to be similar, and where they aren't we do specify up front what will be needed to run it. Where we have done web development, we host the applications for the client so we aren't worried about server compatibility issues - and we have total control of the support which is always nice.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
-
Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
Strip the jargon from all these new-fangled tools and you will find that you are doing the same old things the same old way. In the early 1970's, you had dumb terminals talking to centralized computers. Then came PC's but a whole lot of them had a 3278 emulation card inside them so that they could emulate a dumb terminal cconnected to the mainframe. Then people said they would write client programs on the PC and server programs on the server and everything would be hunky-dory.... except that, a few years later they felt they couldn't maintain all the distributed programs. So they went back to a browser on the PC but all instructions to the browser would be downloaded from the central computer, making the PC a brain-dead machine. Then of course, IBM and Oracle to come up with the dumbed-down NetPC concept too. So, just buy into the latest buzzword and it will keep you in a job that brings you a paycheck. Don't ask for job satisfaction. Just ask for the paycheck every two weeks. :wtf:
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Did this newsletter article really resonate with anyone else? It's slashdotted (codeprojected maybe?) so here's the GCache link: http://bit.ly/qNbGv6[^]. I know it's in the nature of a programmer to be working in a dynamic field, moreso than many others; but ****, is it frustrating when you want to build someone a relatively simple website with some standard features and a few new "things", and you have to spend however many hours evaluating not just languages but platforms and frameworks and communities and future plans and everything else. It's not just Ruby/Rails, the poster child for programmers with ADHD; it's also PHP, easy to deploy on most hosts but with 168 frameworks you need to spend several hours each to evaluate, only to figure out that someone with delusions of grandeur wrote the routing engine. Honestly, I want to code, become really familiar with one stack, so that I can focus on really great solutions with it. If I want to check out some new paradigms, then I can without having to do so just to find work. Yeah, maybe not the "ideal programmer", but having been doing this only 6 years... it's frustrating to me.
modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:34 AM
I would just be happy with well defined requirements, and no scope creep. Everything else (choosing the right tool for the job) is what makes it fun to do. :)
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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I would just be happy with well defined requirements, and no scope creep. Everything else (choosing the right tool for the job) is what makes it fun to do. :)
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
Knowing that a screw needs to be removed and that's all the job is ever going to be doesn't make it any more fun to try and figure out what screwdrivers can to be used. And determine if a given screwdriver allows you to turn it the requisite number of times to get the screw out. And whether the screwdriver can handle screws painted blue. And whether the screwdriver can be used anywhere else. Or if it would be cheaper just to buy a whole new [x]. [Apologize for the analogy.]
