Resigning!
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I cannot believe the SOB asked for training resources. He should be beaten about the head and left for dead in an alley. What kind of socio-path expects his employer to actually invest in the workforce? Even if technology refreshes every 18 months there is no excuse not to be up on the latest changes. The SOB should realize that is why we have evenings and weekends - so prima donnas can freakin' "invest in their careers". I know if I had an employee walk into my office and ask for some help in improving his skills he wouldn't have to resign - I'd fire his @$$ on the spot. Hell, I might even shoot the SOB. I'd shoot him and then laugh because obviously he doens't know how to use google. Freakin' freeloaders. Yeah.
I'd sit here and keep hitting +5 if it would have any effect. :laugh:
Pete
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Well it is about the time! After a couple of months living in the code of shame I decided to resign! Today's email from the IT manager left me speechless! When a job of your dreams (programming) get's to be the worst nightmare, it is about the time to change. I feel like I lost all of my self confidence and the confidence in my knowledge, and I need to rebuild all this up! Any suggestion? I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD, I got the following answer:
"There are sufficient online resources that provide basic level training, just try: Google-> "WebPart Tutorial" (I'm feeling lucky), brings a nice tutorial for this."I agree, it is not a rocket science, and nothing that I could not do with a self study, but it was an action done in order to stimulate the environment, but I did not expected an answer as this! I lost so much energy trying to change things in here that I didn't yet finished two very nice and curios article for CP that I have in the pipe. Am I wrong in my decisions? P.S. Can somebody explain me what the WebPart Tutorial has to do with exams 70-573 and 70-576 and general knowledge on Sharepoint?Be happy you don't work for me; I'd fire you. Seriously. Being an engineer means you learn things on the job. That's why you get paid a relatively good salary. I've been around long enough to know that most training classes are a giant waste of time and I'm not interested in paying you to get your MCTS, MCPD or whatever useless piece of paper you think proves anything. I'm also not paying you to write articles for code project or any other web site. What you would learn in this practical environment is worth way more than some silly certificates. To put it another way; say I have the resumes for two developers in front of me. One has a list of certificates and degrees about how to do something. The other developer explains actually doing them. Which one do you think I'm going to hire?
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I cannot believe the SOB asked for training resources. He should be beaten about the head and left for dead in an alley. What kind of socio-path expects his employer to actually invest in the workforce? Even if technology refreshes every 18 months there is no excuse not to be up on the latest changes. The SOB should realize that is why we have evenings and weekends - so prima donnas can freakin' "invest in their careers". I know if I had an employee walk into my office and ask for some help in improving his skills he wouldn't have to resign - I'd fire his @$$ on the spot. Hell, I might even shoot the SOB. I'd shoot him and then laugh because obviously he doens't know how to use google. Freakin' freeloaders. Yeah.
If it was something that could be easily found by Googling, he should be fired. Or do you prefer hiring "need help plz" types of engineers?
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Take it from someone who's been there, either accept things as they are there or move on! I'd move on. It's clear the company doesn't value you. On another note: John's right, if the company won't pay for training get it on your own and then ask for a raise or move on to somewhere where your skills and training are valued.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunGive me a break. He's asking for training for something brain dead simple stupid. His boss just wants him to do a damn job and clearly said he can figure it out on the fly. Did you not understand the sarcasm? The OP asked the equivalent of "need help plz". If the company doesn't value him, it's because they see someone who is wasting their time. To put it another way; when I had to implement reading PNG files in CE 6.0, I didn't run to my boss and ask for 5 days training. I did a little research, wrote some code and figured it out. That's what engineers are paid to do!
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Be happy you don't work for me; I'd fire you. Seriously. Being an engineer means you learn things on the job. That's why you get paid a relatively good salary. I've been around long enough to know that most training classes are a giant waste of time and I'm not interested in paying you to get your MCTS, MCPD or whatever useless piece of paper you think proves anything. I'm also not paying you to write articles for code project or any other web site. What you would learn in this practical environment is worth way more than some silly certificates. To put it another way; say I have the resumes for two developers in front of me. One has a list of certificates and degrees about how to do something. The other developer explains actually doing them. Which one do you think I'm going to hire?
Great to know that. A detail, it's not only if someone did something, but how he did it. I saw people claiming to be a part of abc big deal projects, but actually, coded bullshit. However, If you read some of the treads, you will see that was not the core of my problems-complains. Cheers!
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If it was something that could be easily found by Googling, he should be fired. Or do you prefer hiring "need help plz" types of engineers?
You really think I'm a "need hlp plz" type of developer? And yes, I think that you should grow in the company, maybe in a different ways but still be offered the possibility to learn and explore new things. At the end is the company that will have benefits from my new knowledge. Again, it is much easier to learn from someone who had a real hands on experience that reading bunch of stuff, wrote by who knows who, who knows how. The slavery ended long time ago, luckily. However, points of view Cheers
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You really think I'm a "need hlp plz" type of developer? And yes, I think that you should grow in the company, maybe in a different ways but still be offered the possibility to learn and explore new things. At the end is the company that will have benefits from my new knowledge. Again, it is much easier to learn from someone who had a real hands on experience that reading bunch of stuff, wrote by who knows who, who knows how. The slavery ended long time ago, luckily. However, points of view Cheers
Yes, that's how you come across. You claim that this isn't about training but "testing" your boss's attitude. If so, it's a total fail. Put yourself in his shoes. Your boss asked you to do a relatively simple task within your capabilities of learning and you responded by asking for five days training. It makes you come across as a prima dona, oblivious to the needs (or financial budgets) of the company and of your likely job description, which is likely to solve problems without someone holding your hand. This wasn't a very sophisticated move on your part. Moreover, your boss's response was very sarcastic, which is a clear message to you that seems to have gone over your head. To whit, your company very likely wonders why the hell they hired you. (In which case, why should they give you training--you'll just move on with it.) To even equate your job with slavery is a sign of extreme immaturity. You were hired to solve problems for the company. Moreover, to claim that the company will benefit from knowledge you learned without taking the time to understand what knowledge that is or how it would benefit them illustrates just how close minded you are to their needs and requirements. I find your entire attitude very off putting. You seem very resistant to learning on your own. How do you know a class you took would be from someone with real hands on experience? I've taken several classes and many were taught by book learned people who have never had to actually apply the knowledge they were imparting in a real, commercial-ready solution.
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Give me a break. He's asking for training for something brain dead simple stupid. His boss just wants him to do a damn job and clearly said he can figure it out on the fly. Did you not understand the sarcasm? The OP asked the equivalent of "need help plz". If the company doesn't value him, it's because they see someone who is wasting their time. To put it another way; when I had to implement reading PNG files in CE 6.0, I didn't run to my boss and ask for 5 days training. I did a little research, wrote some code and figured it out. That's what engineers are paid to do!
Dude you got it all wrong. He didn't ask for help with a job assignment he asked to be sent to more generalized training.
Original Poster wrote:
I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD
And what you saw is correct, but doesn't apply to this situation.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Dude you got it all wrong. He didn't ask for help with a job assignment he asked to be sent to more generalized training.
Original Poster wrote:
I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD
And what you saw is correct, but doesn't apply to this situation.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunI was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD, I got the following answer:
"There are sufficient online resources that provide basic level training, just try: Google-> "WebPart Tutorial" (I'm feeling lucky), brings a nice tutorial for this."
Assuming the OP gave a direct quote, based on the response by his manager, it appears that the manager's impression was that he [the OP] didn't know how to do his assignment and was asking for training to do it. Hence, the heavily sarcastic "look it up" response.
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That was also mine concern! :( Any suggestion?
Mario Majcica wrote:
Any suggestion?
Yes, put your head, keep your mouth shut, and do the best damn job you can in spite of the circumstances. If that means spending eight hours a night studying, so be it. Make it so you leaving is a genuine loss to them. This would also give you the opportunity to ask for training and/or a raise separate of any job assignment and possibly make both successful.
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Mario Majcica wrote:
Any suggestion?
Yes, put your head, keep your mouth shut, and do the best damn job you can in spite of the circumstances. If that means spending eight hours a night studying, so be it. Make it so you leaving is a genuine loss to them. This would also give you the opportunity to ask for training and/or a raise separate of any job assignment and possibly make both successful.
You are right. But not in here. Change the job, put myself in 200%, start studying as much as I can (as usual), forget about this story and this post! Cheers
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I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD, I got the following answer:
"There are sufficient online resources that provide basic level training, just try: Google-> "WebPart Tutorial" (I'm feeling lucky), brings a nice tutorial for this."
Assuming the OP gave a direct quote, based on the response by his manager, it appears that the manager's impression was that he [the OP] didn't know how to do his assignment and was asking for training to do it. Hence, the heavily sarcastic "look it up" response.
As first, company's plans are to get a completely new direction. From WinForms app to a Sharepoint app. As I had little or no experience with Sharepoint, but I have couple of years of experience with ASP.NET, I was trying to see if the company is willing to invest in the people, and that the situation that is currently inside is changeable. I could also easily accept an answer like, that is not our goal right now, we are not on budget for that training, etc. If I send a formal mail, I accept an honest answer and not a joke. As that is the smallest problem in this environment, and it was the only thing that I felt free to publicly post, seems that I'm a bad person, bad programmer, willing to do nothing, with a knowledge of a lazy shithead, etc. I was judged freely in many ways, in previous post, by people who read just the first couple of lines of my message. I was been sad a lot of bad things, but I would like to see the same people in my position and then chat with them about. I'm not a loafer or a worthless SOB, I adore programming and everything that floats around and as always I will continue trying to improve every day in way that to take pride in the quality of my work. Maybe I also expressed my self in an unappropriated way, but hey, I never spent not even a day in a English speaking country nor English is my mother tongue. Thanks to all who shared their experience. Also thanks to all the critics, it made me reconsider my thoughts which strengthen even more my position. I wish a pleasant day to each one of you!
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Yes, that's how you come across. You claim that this isn't about training but "testing" your boss's attitude. If so, it's a total fail. Put yourself in his shoes. Your boss asked you to do a relatively simple task within your capabilities of learning and you responded by asking for five days training. It makes you come across as a prima dona, oblivious to the needs (or financial budgets) of the company and of your likely job description, which is likely to solve problems without someone holding your hand. This wasn't a very sophisticated move on your part. Moreover, your boss's response was very sarcastic, which is a clear message to you that seems to have gone over your head. To whit, your company very likely wonders why the hell they hired you. (In which case, why should they give you training--you'll just move on with it.) To even equate your job with slavery is a sign of extreme immaturity. You were hired to solve problems for the company. Moreover, to claim that the company will benefit from knowledge you learned without taking the time to understand what knowledge that is or how it would benefit them illustrates just how close minded you are to their needs and requirements. I find your entire attitude very off putting. You seem very resistant to learning on your own. How do you know a class you took would be from someone with real hands on experience? I've taken several classes and many were taught by book learned people who have never had to actually apply the knowledge they were imparting in a real, commercial-ready solution.
In order not to rewrite everything, check this post. http://www.codeproject.com/Lounge.aspx?msg=4025518#xx4025518xx[^]
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As first, company's plans are to get a completely new direction. From WinForms app to a Sharepoint app. As I had little or no experience with Sharepoint, but I have couple of years of experience with ASP.NET, I was trying to see if the company is willing to invest in the people, and that the situation that is currently inside is changeable. I could also easily accept an answer like, that is not our goal right now, we are not on budget for that training, etc. If I send a formal mail, I accept an honest answer and not a joke. As that is the smallest problem in this environment, and it was the only thing that I felt free to publicly post, seems that I'm a bad person, bad programmer, willing to do nothing, with a knowledge of a lazy shithead, etc. I was judged freely in many ways, in previous post, by people who read just the first couple of lines of my message. I was been sad a lot of bad things, but I would like to see the same people in my position and then chat with them about. I'm not a loafer or a worthless SOB, I adore programming and everything that floats around and as always I will continue trying to improve every day in way that to take pride in the quality of my work. Maybe I also expressed my self in an unappropriated way, but hey, I never spent not even a day in a English speaking country nor English is my mother tongue. Thanks to all who shared their experience. Also thanks to all the critics, it made me reconsider my thoughts which strengthen even more my position. I wish a pleasant day to each one of you!
By the way, thanks for all thumbs down! :)
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As first, company's plans are to get a completely new direction. From WinForms app to a Sharepoint app. As I had little or no experience with Sharepoint, but I have couple of years of experience with ASP.NET, I was trying to see if the company is willing to invest in the people, and that the situation that is currently inside is changeable. I could also easily accept an answer like, that is not our goal right now, we are not on budget for that training, etc. If I send a formal mail, I accept an honest answer and not a joke. As that is the smallest problem in this environment, and it was the only thing that I felt free to publicly post, seems that I'm a bad person, bad programmer, willing to do nothing, with a knowledge of a lazy shithead, etc. I was judged freely in many ways, in previous post, by people who read just the first couple of lines of my message. I was been sad a lot of bad things, but I would like to see the same people in my position and then chat with them about. I'm not a loafer or a worthless SOB, I adore programming and everything that floats around and as always I will continue trying to improve every day in way that to take pride in the quality of my work. Maybe I also expressed my self in an unappropriated way, but hey, I never spent not even a day in a English speaking country nor English is my mother tongue. Thanks to all who shared their experience. Also thanks to all the critics, it made me reconsider my thoughts which strengthen even more my position. I wish a pleasant day to each one of you!
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you are, but how you are perceived by your management. In a less than stellar environment it gets very tricky to test the waters, so to speak. In this specific instance, your timing was terrible. Even though you didn't mean it this way, your manager clearly saw your request as coinciding with your assignment, whether that was your intention or not.
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That was exactly what I'm doing right now. However it is always a pity, especially when you had all the best intentions and once you invested a lot of energy. Starting all over again, after only 4 months, is not the most pleasantful thing.
Wow, yeah, only 4 months. I try to tough it out for 12 months no matter how shitty. On month 10.5 here, not intending to leave though.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.