Out of Control (tm)
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Does anyone else think this Travon Martin thing is spinning WAY out of control? A Latino shoots a black kid (happens every day all around the country), and people are calling it a hate crime, posting bounties, and even posting the (wrong) address and phone number for the shooter. Obama thinks it's his son, Maxine Waters claims it's a hate crime, and everybody not directly involved with the case seems to think the stand your ground law in Florida should be waved just this once. There were NO EYE-WITNESSES, and Florida law merely states that you have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger. Unfortunately, we only have the shooter's description of events, and NOBODY CAN COME FORWARD AND REFUTE THOSE CLAIMS. It's real handy when a criminal gets off on a technicality, and everyone on the side of the criminal applauds and claims the system is working, but when the same thing happens to the good guys, it's a travesty, an injustice, and racially motivated. What a crock of shit. ------ I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid, but at the same time, I can't say he was wrong either.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Obama thinks it's his son
Eh, bit of an exageration unless he has said more. Last I saw Obama said if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin i.e. an African American male who wears clothes. If that changed, I dunno. I'm only catching bits and pieces in passing. The guy is going to walk. With this many hands in the cookie jar, someone is going to botch something and he will get off on a technicality, innocent or guilty. If that happens, then we can expect some serious upset. Doubly so if the officer is Latino or White. If he is guilty, he deserves to be locked up. If innocent, he should be allowed to go on with his life without worrying that someone is going to 'get revenge' for some imaginary great injustice. I haven't listened to the 911 tapes, but I read something about someone begging for their life (again, only what I have read). If it was Martin begging, then this wasn't standing his ground, the situation would have been difused and he would have had to wait for the police to arrive. At that point it becomes an execution. On the other hand, if it was Zimmerman begging, then it was self defense and he was protecting himself. All depends on what the voice analysis reveals, if the begging happened at all.
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Shameel wrote:
If you read the case carefully, certain degree of racism is indeed involved and JSOP's comment was not appropriate. It is never right to kill someone based solely on suspicions.
According to Zimmerman, he was on his way back to his car when he was attacked by Martin. How is that "based on suspicion"?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Quick! We're under attack from the loonies!!!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Obama thinks it's his son
Eh, bit of an exageration unless he has said more. Last I saw Obama said if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin i.e. an African American male who wears clothes. If that changed, I dunno. I'm only catching bits and pieces in passing. The guy is going to walk. With this many hands in the cookie jar, someone is going to botch something and he will get off on a technicality, innocent or guilty. If that happens, then we can expect some serious upset. Doubly so if the officer is Latino or White. If he is guilty, he deserves to be locked up. If innocent, he should be allowed to go on with his life without worrying that someone is going to 'get revenge' for some imaginary great injustice. I haven't listened to the 911 tapes, but I read something about someone begging for their life (again, only what I have read). If it was Martin begging, then this wasn't standing his ground, the situation would have been difused and he would have had to wait for the police to arrive. At that point it becomes an execution. On the other hand, if it was Zimmerman begging, then it was self defense and he was protecting himself. All depends on what the voice analysis reveals, if the begging happened at all.
RJOberg wrote:
someone begging for their life
The police say it was Zimmerman begging for help.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Does anyone else think this Travon Martin thing is spinning WAY out of control? A Latino shoots a black kid (happens every day all around the country), and people are calling it a hate crime, posting bounties, and even posting the (wrong) address and phone number for the shooter. Obama thinks it's his son, Maxine Waters claims it's a hate crime, and everybody not directly involved with the case seems to think the stand your ground law in Florida should be waved just this once. There were NO EYE-WITNESSES, and Florida law merely states that you have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger. Unfortunately, we only have the shooter's description of events, and NOBODY CAN COME FORWARD AND REFUTE THOSE CLAIMS. It's real handy when a criminal gets off on a technicality, and everyone on the side of the criminal applauds and claims the system is working, but when the same thing happens to the good guys, it's a travesty, an injustice, and racially motivated. What a crock of shit. ------ I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid, but at the same time, I can't say he was wrong either.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
mark merrens wrote:
it means that his story didn't stack up
Not now. If it goes to court now, it will be to appease all the race-baiters and white-haters. Then we can get ready for the riots when he's found not guilty.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Not now. If it goes to court now, it will be to appease all the race-baiters and white-haters.
Then we can get ready for the riots when he's found not guilty.Sadly you are probably correct.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Geez walking around with a loaded gun looking for trouble ended badly. Who woulda thought?
His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?. He was legally licensed to carry the weapon. If it had been me, I would have been carrying as well. Like I said, NOBODY knows the whole story except Zimmerman. Essentially, it's his word against - well - nobody.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?. He was legally licensed to carry the weapon. If it had been me, I would have been carrying as well. Like I said, NOBODY knows the whole story except Zimmerman. Essentially, it's his word against - well - nobody.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?. He was legally licensed to carry the weapon.
I don't doubt any of that.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If it had been me, I would have been carrying as well. Like I said, NOBODY knows the whole story except Zimmerman. Essentially, it's his word against - well - nobody.
yep, dead guys don't talk.
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Does anyone else think this Travon Martin thing is spinning WAY out of control? A Latino shoots a black kid (happens every day all around the country), and people are calling it a hate crime, posting bounties, and even posting the (wrong) address and phone number for the shooter. Obama thinks it's his son, Maxine Waters claims it's a hate crime, and everybody not directly involved with the case seems to think the stand your ground law in Florida should be waved just this once. There were NO EYE-WITNESSES, and Florida law merely states that you have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger. Unfortunately, we only have the shooter's description of events, and NOBODY CAN COME FORWARD AND REFUTE THOSE CLAIMS. It's real handy when a criminal gets off on a technicality, and everyone on the side of the criminal applauds and claims the system is working, but when the same thing happens to the good guys, it's a travesty, an injustice, and racially motivated. What a crock of shit. ------ I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid, but at the same time, I can't say he was wrong either.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Does anyone else think this Travon Martin thing is spinning WAY out of control? A Latino shoots a black kid (happens every day all around the country), and people are calling it a hate crime, posting bounties, and even posting the (wrong) address and phone number for the shooter. Obama thinks it's his son, Maxine Waters claims it's a hate crime, and everybody not directly involved with the case seems to think the stand your ground law in Florida should be waved just this once. There were NO EYE-WITNESSES, and Florida law merely states that you have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger. Unfortunately, we only have the shooter's description of events, and NOBODY CAN COME FORWARD AND REFUTE THOSE CLAIMS. It's real handy when a criminal gets off on a technicality, and everyone on the side of the criminal applauds and claims the system is working, but when the same thing happens to the good guys, it's a travesty, an injustice, and racially motivated. What a crock of shit. ------ I'm not saying the guy was right in shooting the kid, but at the same time, I can't say he was wrong either.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997What I want to know is where is the Rev. Jesse Jackson when there's a drive by shooting in a predominately black neighborhood that kills an 8 year girl? Happens here about 2ce a year, or more.
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.0 ToDo Manager Extension
Version 3.0 now available. -
Shameel wrote:
If you read the case carefully, certain degree of racism is indeed involved and JSOP's comment was not appropriate. It is never right to kill someone based solely on suspicions.
According to Zimmerman, he was on his way back to his car when he was attacked by Martin. How is that "based on suspicion"?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997The shooting was not based on suspicion, but the chase was. Zimmerman had specifically asked the people in the neighborhood to lookout for "young black boys". This stereotyping behavior is what landed him in this trouble neck deep. I'm not advocating execution to this guy, may be he was overzealous and wanted to prove his worth, but the self-defense plea is unacceptable. If you follow someone unnecessarily and without acceptable reasons and he beats you up, then it means you deserve it. At least I would have done the same if he had followed me.
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Of course not, but that's not what happened. Martin attacked him, was beating him up, banging his head on the ground, and broke his nose. Apparently there was a struggle with the gun. Zimmerman says it was self defense. And the cops who investigated it at the time and the DA all concurred that the evidence backed Zimmerman's story. For all we know it was an accidental shooting where the gun went off during the struggle.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Zimmerman says it was self defense.
They moment he admitted to following Martin, he lost his plea of self defense.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
And the cops who investigated it at the time and the DA all concurred that the evidence backed Zimmerman's story.
According to Wikipedia, the cop who is investigating this case was already reprimanded for racial bias in another case.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
For all we know it was an accidental shooting where the gun went off during the struggle.
We still do not know how a gun can go off accidentally exactly in the chest, that too when the shooter was face down on the ground and the the victim was on top of him.
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His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?. He was legally licensed to carry the weapon. If it had been me, I would have been carrying as well. Like I said, NOBODY knows the whole story except Zimmerman. Essentially, it's his word against - well - nobody.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?
It wasn't his job, it was a position he had awarded himself. And the guidelines for someone doing what he claimed he was doing say that he should not carry a gun when doing so.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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The shooting was not based on suspicion, but the chase was. Zimmerman had specifically asked the people in the neighborhood to lookout for "young black boys". This stereotyping behavior is what landed him in this trouble neck deep. I'm not advocating execution to this guy, may be he was overzealous and wanted to prove his worth, but the self-defense plea is unacceptable. If you follow someone unnecessarily and without acceptable reasons and he beats you up, then it means you deserve it. At least I would have done the same if he had followed me.
Unless you can produce an eye-witness, all the cops have to go on is Zimmerman's account of events. THAT is what I'm trying to say. And yeah, it's amazing that in this world of hyper-surveillance, I'm REALLY surprised it wasn't caught on camera. And finally, you're going to believe the news media even after they initially claimed zimmerman was white, when in fact, he's a latino? The news media isn't trustworthy. The activists want the guy's skin, regardless of the facts. There are no eye-witnesses. Nobody's gonna win.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I find it amusing that all people seem to care about is hanging this guy without knowing anything about the facts. I have no idea what happened so am content to let due process take place and I have to have some faith (however misplaced) that the authorities will get it more right than wrong. If it does go to court it means that his story didn't stack up and then a jury of his peers will render a verdict based upon the facts as heard in court.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
The problem seems to be that whatever due process is wasn't be followed at the start. The police office investigating the original incident thought he was lying and wanted to pursue it and was told not to. That then gets construed as a cover up, momentum swings towards doing things properly and then the inevitable happens with momentum, it swings the other way until there is just a prevailing mood to get the bloke banged up. If your balance goes off at the start then it is very difficult to snap things back to an even keel without swaying one way and then the other for a while.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
His job was quite literally to "look for trouble", or don't you understand the nature of Citizen Patrol?
It wasn't his job, it was a position he had awarded himself. And the guidelines for someone doing what he claimed he was doing say that he should not carry a gun when doing so.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
If he was part of an organized Citizen's Patrol, it *was* his job. I was part of the neighborhood Citizen's Patrol before we moved, but we were specifically told not to carry weapons. We were there to observe and report, and were prohibited from conducting pursuits of ANY kind. Since our neighborhood was relatively peaceful, not carrying was not an issue.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
If he was part of an organized Citizen's Patrol, it *was* his job. I was part of the neighborhood Citizen's Patrol before we moved, but we were specifically told not to carry weapons. We were there to observe and report, and were prohibited from conducting pursuits of ANY kind. Since our neighborhood was relatively peaceful, not carrying was not an issue.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If he was part of an organized Citizen's Patrol
Well it was organised. He organised it, and made himself its chief. It wasn't affiliated to any wider scheme.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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RJOberg wrote:
someone begging for their life
The police say it was Zimmerman begging for help.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Although quite a few witnesses say it wasn't. And one witness says she was told by the police to say it was.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Geez walking around with a loaded gun looking for trouble ended badly. Who woulda thought?
