How to get that warm supermarket beer cold in 12 minutes
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wizardzz wrote:
lowering the melting temperature of the ice
That can't be right either.
You are saying the salt does not effect ice? Have you ever experienced winter? Do you live in an area where roads are salted? Have you ever salted a frozen sidewalk? I've done it with salt and salt water. You can actually melt ice with salt, salt/water below the freezing point.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice?
I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition! Everyone together now... ;)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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He's not cooling water, he's melting ice into water at a lower temperature, the liquid, now colder than 32 degrees, will envelope the surface area of the cans cooling it faster than just ice, or water, or both. Think of it as he's lowering the melting temperature of the ice rather than lowering the freezing temperature of water.
That is an excellent explanation:thumbsup:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Actually, this is a well known effect: If you salt ice the brine produced has a lower melting point than pure water ice, so it enters the liquid phase. There are bonds being broken between the molecules in the water-ice to do this, and this requires energy (taken in the form of heat) so the temperature does drop. I remember doing this as an experiment in school, it got cold enough to freeze moisture out of the air onto the beaker(though obviously we used thermometers for the experiment). This is worth a squizz[^] using enough salt gets down to -30oC
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
Think of it like making a liquid ice (yeah I know). You are liquefying the ice without significantly increasing its temperature. So you have the low temperature of the ice plus the lot bigger cooling surface of the water for your cans.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
Please see my reply above...
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
You are saying the salt does not effect ice? Have you ever experienced winter? Do you live in an area where roads are salted? Have you ever salted a frozen sidewalk? I've done it with salt and salt water. You can actually melt ice with salt, salt/water below the freezing point.
wizardzz wrote:
You are saying the salt does not effect ice?
Not in the way described.
wizardzz wrote:
Do you live in an area where roads are salted?
I used to. I shiver just thinking about it.
wizardzz wrote:
You can actually melt ice with salt
Is it a source of heat?
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Not if I can help it.
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So it's a hot day and I want some beer but there is only one can in the fridge! So off to the supermarket I go with my shopping list: Cans of beer(warm beer as they don't have a cold beer section) Ice(2kg pack) Bag of cheap salt So when I got home I put the ice in a bucket, sprinkled a good amount of salt on top, added water and then put the warm cans of beer in the bucket. 12 minutes later - ice cold beer :-D (the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast) It just works ok!(to be read with a stroppy voice) :laugh: [Edit]slightly whinny sounding correction to my correction of explanation in brackets() above.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Next time, plan ahead. Think, man, think!
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68).
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wizardzz wrote:
You are saying the salt does not effect ice?
Not in the way described.
wizardzz wrote:
Do you live in an area where roads are salted?
I used to. I shiver just thinking about it.
wizardzz wrote:
You can actually melt ice with salt
Is it a source of heat?
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Next time, plan ahead. Think, man, think!
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68).
beer.Chilled().Count()>5 == inabilityToThink
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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If you are just being technical about the use of the term melt, then just say it, otherwise retreat to below the bridge hence you came.
No, but the salt affects the water not the ice.
wizardzz wrote:
the bridge hence you came.
I think you mean "whence". :-D
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No, but the salt affects the water not the ice.
wizardzz wrote:
the bridge hence you came.
I think you mean "whence". :-D
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So it's a hot day and I want some beer but there is only one can in the fridge! So off to the supermarket I go with my shopping list: Cans of beer(warm beer as they don't have a cold beer section) Ice(2kg pack) Bag of cheap salt So when I got home I put the ice in a bucket, sprinkled a good amount of salt on top, added water and then put the warm cans of beer in the bucket. 12 minutes later - ice cold beer :-D (the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast) It just works ok!(to be read with a stroppy voice) :laugh: [Edit]slightly whinny sounding correction to my correction of explanation in brackets() above.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
MythBusters did an episode on this: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riMqzcuCdfY[^] Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrX_xcOyDnw[^] I personally have no patience, so I just drink it warm. :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! Code, follow, or get out of the way.
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Sticky dubs and spell check failed as it's a valid word. Until context or usage check is perfected, I'll proofread better. I have now destroyed 2 keyboards in the 4 months I've been at this job. BTW, you don't get invited to many parties do you?
wizardzz wrote:
you don't get invited to many parties do you?
No. :sigh:
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Interestingly there was a program on the Hairy Bikers (two Geordie chefs) the other day, where someone was demonstrating how that was used to make ice-cream or sorbet in the days before fridges.
Yes, my gran used to make a really delicious vanilla ice cream after a big dinner using that trick.
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I used to phone ahead to my local, after work pub and ask the barman to take two bottles of milk stout out of the fridge for me. Then, while I drank one, he took another out, so as to always have one ready with the chill taken off. The flavour is killed by being too cold, but lager is a different story. Lager must be icy.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
The very rough summary of my once clear understanding of this effect is that ice cannot cool pure water to below 0 C without melting, but it can cool salt water to below 0 before melting.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
Adding salt (or any foreign substance) to the water upsets the delicate balance between freezing and melting. Fewer water molecules reach the surface of the ice in a given time, so water freezes more slowly. The melting rate isn't changed by the salt, so melting "wins" [2]. Why does the temperature drop? Energy is required to snap the hydrogen bonds that hold the ice together. The melting ice draws that energy from the surrounding solution as heat. http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/solutions/faq/why-salt-cools-icewater.shtml[^]
