UFOs
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleI can answer that. We come among you to play practical jokes. On a long flight, there's nothing more we like than to indulge in the equivalent of what you call cow tipping. In our version, of course, we get the dumbest members of the crew to play the interstellar version of Operation, except in this game, the object is to insert things into you without making the buzzer go off.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Isn't there a concept that says if they are out there why haven't we seen them. Fermat or something. I think there is a vast difference between life and intelligent (spacefaring mobile) life. This is one where FAITH comes into the equation, you can't prove it one way or another, just like any religion, however I choose to believe there are aliens out there, but then I'm a scifi nut! [edit] Given enough time the brain eventually throws up the information I was looking for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox[^] [/edit]
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
his is one where FAITH comes into the equation, you can't prove it one way or another, just like any religion, however I choose to believe there are aliens out there
Ok but one has to also accept that if they are in the next galaxy over then no one is going to be stopping by for tea.
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleI can answer that. We come among you to play practical jokes. On a long flight, there's nothing more we like than to indulge in the equivalent of what you call cow tipping. In our version, of course, we get the dumbest members of the crew to play the interstellar version of Operation, except in this game, the object is to insert things into you without making the buzzer go off.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Sister!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Erudite_Eric wrote:
Yes, in an infinite universe, and having seen the tenacity of life on our planet, one is forced to conclude there has to be life elsewhere.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Once one has accepted that it is logical to expect some of that life to be highly advanced. Logical and sensible in fact
No actually one doesn't have to accept that. There are a number of factors, already known about the earth, that would have precluded the long, very long, path that lead to intelligent life on this planet.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Of course if such a life form actually showed up imagine the impact it would have on the planet
First of course one must presume that there is in fact a way for them to get here. And excluding magic there is mounting evidence that no one (neither us nor aliens) would be moving anywhere fast in the universe.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
It would create a sense of earthly unity overnight
Nonsense. The only way "unity" might be achieved would be if the aliens attacked and did so over a very broad scale over the entire earth.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
go a long way to destroying many religions, and generally promote a sense of harmony.
I think you need to get out and talk to more real people.
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Erudite_Eric wrote:
Life CAN exist in places which can exist on all sorts of planets
Erudite_Eric wrote:
convincing on a purely logical as well as evidential basis
Lets accept there is life out there. Lots of it. Lets accept that many of the beings out there may have technology (or may naturally be able to ) travel V. Fast Indeed. Let's even allow for superluminal flight. a) they are visiting Earth why? b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few people
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleBecause the last planet the found with some interesting looking life on it they sailed straight in to say hello and were fucked and eaten by the natives. Don't want to make that mistake twice.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Yes, in an infinite universe, and having seen the tenacity of life on our planet, one is forced to conclude there has to be life elsewhere. Once one has accepted that it is logical to expect some of that life to be highly advanced. Logical and sensible in fact. Of course if such a life form actually showed up imagine the impact it would have on the planet. It would create a sense of earthly unity overnight, go a long way to destroying many religions, and generally promote a sense of harmony. I cant wait! :)
============================== Nothing to say.
Until you remember that time is also a factor. Species come and go... We've gone from primitive to advanced (By our standards, at least) in a few thousand years. The way we're going, we'll probably ruin this planet and return to technological nothingness in the next thousand (Or sooner). So ask yourself: What are the chances of there being highly-advanced races out there in that short time range? And what are the chances of them visiting us? Pretty low, I'd say... There might be some out there, but I doubt we'll see them around here anytime soon.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Of course if such a life form actually showed up imagine the impact it would have on the planet. It would create a sense of earthly unity overnight, go a long way to destroying many religions, and generally promote a sense of harmony. I cant wait!
Now, that... And I can't believe I'm saying this to you... I agree 100%.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Life CAN exist in places which can exist on all sorts of planets
Erudite_Eric wrote:
convincing on a purely logical as well as evidential basis
Lets accept there is life out there. Lots of it. Lets accept that many of the beings out there may have technology (or may naturally be able to ) travel V. Fast Indeed. Let's even allow for superluminal flight. a) they are visiting Earth why? b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few people
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleYou assume that aliens will have the same logic and reasoning like us which we don’t know. (and no, I don’t believe in UFOs) .
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Until you remember that time is also a factor. Species come and go... We've gone from primitive to advanced (By our standards, at least) in a few thousand years. The way we're going, we'll probably ruin this planet and return to technological nothingness in the next thousand (Or sooner). So ask yourself: What are the chances of there being highly-advanced races out there in that short time range? And what are the chances of them visiting us? Pretty low, I'd say... There might be some out there, but I doubt we'll see them around here anytime soon.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Of course if such a life form actually showed up imagine the impact it would have on the planet. It would create a sense of earthly unity overnight, go a long way to destroying many religions, and generally promote a sense of harmony. I cant wait!
Now, that... And I can't believe I'm saying this to you... I agree 100%.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You know, I am a pretty sceptical guy, but this is interesting: he reported being intercepted by a "gleaming silver, metallic disc" which flew alongside his aircraft before speeding off. The mystery object was also detected by RAF radars on the ground, which recorded it travelling at speeds far in excess of any known aircraft. So you have an eye witness in the air, and, a RADAR witness on the ground, of the same object. So unless they are all lying, there really was some kind of object that was capable of unparalleled speeds. UFOs? Personally, I think alot ot the reports are pure bull, but undeniably there IS alien life in the cosmos? Why? Well look at earth: There are entire eco systems that surround volcanic vents deep under the sea. No sunlight. Immense pressure. A sulphur based (or some such) life hierarchy, unlike the solar/carbohydrate one we are part of at the surface. We already HAVE alien life on earth, so its chance of existence in the universe is NOT dependent on suns and planets similar to earths. Life CAN exist in places which can exist on all sorts of planets. so really, these reports of UFOs are actually quite convincing on a purely logical as well as evidential basis.
============================== Nothing to say.
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mark merrens wrote:
sheer number of UFO reports, many form credible witnesses, soemthing is plainly afoot
there are loads of people, credible and otherwise ,that report all sorts of garbage (Doris Stokes springs to mind) but that doesn't mean something is afoot, it means there are people who believe things and are prepared for whatever reason to talk about them - i certainly don't think there is a shred of real evidence for any frequent secret aircraft flying
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
there are loads of people, credible and otherwise ,that report all sorts of garbage
In your humble opinion.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
i certainly don't think there is a shred of real evidence for any frequent secret aircraft flying
Well, that explains it then. I'm sure, with all of your government contacts that you know more about this than the rest of us poor citizens. After all, governments never keep secrets, the military less so.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
is how many of them are actually secret aircraft being worked on.
Probably close to zero. Even more so in this case since a military project that buzzed a civilian aircraft would probably lead to several court martials. Especially now (since they can in fact track them better than projects during the cold war.)
jschell wrote:
Even more so in this case since a military project that buzzed a civilian aircraft would probably lead to several court martials.
Er, this was 1952, not long after the war. It was a military aircraft, not civilian, that got buzzed and I would not dismiss lightly the claims of a pilot (doesn't mean he didn't make it up but I'd be more inclined to believe him than a drunken hillbilly). Besides, the object was tracked by radar.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleBecause the last planet the found with some interesting looking life on it they sailed straight in to say hello and were fucked and eaten by the natives. Don't want to make that mistake twice.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Don't want to make that mistake twice.
well, it's kinda difficult to try again once you've been fucked and eaten, I'd think!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleYou assume that aliens will have the same logic and reasoning like us which we don’t know. (and no, I don’t believe in UFOs) .
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
You assume that aliens will have the same logic
Surely Logic is Logic - it's like saying they will have the same mathematics - of course they will. Doesn't matter if they count in Base 42, Maths is maths and logic is logic
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
and reasoning
yeah - I guess they could have some deep seated religious belief in two-leggged creatures on a blue planet ...
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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You know, I am a pretty sceptical guy, but this is interesting: he reported being intercepted by a "gleaming silver, metallic disc" which flew alongside his aircraft before speeding off. The mystery object was also detected by RAF radars on the ground, which recorded it travelling at speeds far in excess of any known aircraft. So you have an eye witness in the air, and, a RADAR witness on the ground, of the same object. So unless they are all lying, there really was some kind of object that was capable of unparalleled speeds. UFOs? Personally, I think alot ot the reports are pure bull, but undeniably there IS alien life in the cosmos? Why? Well look at earth: There are entire eco systems that surround volcanic vents deep under the sea. No sunlight. Immense pressure. A sulphur based (or some such) life hierarchy, unlike the solar/carbohydrate one we are part of at the surface. We already HAVE alien life on earth, so its chance of existence in the universe is NOT dependent on suns and planets similar to earths. Life CAN exist in places which can exist on all sorts of planets. so really, these reports of UFOs are actually quite convincing on a purely logical as well as evidential basis.
============================== Nothing to say.
I don't have the link but I believe Neil deGrasse Tyson(obligatory wiki clicky[^]) gave an interesting analogy. It goes something like this: In order to be able to invent interstellar travel a species must be hundreds of thousands if not millions of years in advance of us scientifically and culturally. So to expect ourselves to be able to understand them or for them to be able to communicate to us would be like us expecting an ant to be able to understand us if we tried to communicate with it...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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No, we arent going to ruin this planet. Use it yes, but not ruin it. Life is too adaptable to pay much attention to what we do to it. Look how much wildlife inhabits urban areas for example.
============================== Nothing to say.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
No, we arent going to ruin this planet. Use it yes, but not ruin it. Life is too adaptable to pay much attention to what we do to it.
However in terms of this discussion the only relevant "life" is humans. But I doubt humanity will manage to do itself in. Could seriously impact its ability to mount any endeavor that involves moving people to other planets though. Same factors would apply to other intelligent life.
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
a) they are visiting Earth why?
b) Having taken the time to visit, they don't say hello, they sneak around just enough to be seen by just a few peopleBecause the last planet the found with some interesting looking life on it they sailed straight in to say hello and were fucked and eaten by the natives. Don't want to make that mistake twice.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Because the last planet the found with some interesting looking life on it they sailed straight in to say hello and were f***ed and eaten by the natives.
Wouldn't stop humans of course and didn't stop them (historical analogies.) They simply made sure that next time they started shooting first.
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
there are loads of people, credible and otherwise ,that report all sorts of garbage
In your humble opinion.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
i certainly don't think there is a shred of real evidence for any frequent secret aircraft flying
Well, that explains it then. I'm sure, with all of your government contacts that you know more about this than the rest of us poor citizens. After all, governments never keep secrets, the military less so.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
In your humble opinion.
What? So you don't believe that there are many, many people reporting all sorts of weird stuff of which the internet provides a ready made medium to promote it? Or you just assume that the majority of all such reports are in fact truthful?
mark merrens wrote:
After all, governments never keep secrets, the military less so.
That argument ignores reality. The fact that governments try to keep secrets don't mean they succeed. In the extreme cases of UFO mythology the government itself would have to be run by aliens with supernatural abilities because humans are simply not capable of keeping secrets for decades when vast numbers of people are involved. One need only look into real histories of things like the US nuclear project and the stealth bomber to understand that the only thing kept secret were details.
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I don't have the link but I believe Neil deGrasse Tyson(obligatory wiki clicky[^]) gave an interesting analogy. It goes something like this: In order to be able to invent interstellar travel a species must be hundreds of thousands if not millions of years in advance of us scientifically and culturally. So to expect ourselves to be able to understand them or for them to be able to communicate to us would be like us expecting an ant to be able to understand us if we tried to communicate with it...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
In order to be able to invent interstellar travel a species must be hundreds of thousands if not millions of years in advance of us scientifically and culturally.
So to expect ourselves to be able to understand them or for them to be able to communicate to us would be like us expecting an ant to be able to understand us if we tried to communicate with it...Nope. The first statement supposes that "interstellar travel" (common definition) is possible at all. If it isn't then it doesn't matter how advanced they are. The second supposes that intellect is advancing in some sort of progression along with technology. And there isn't much reason to suspect that. Actually one could argue the alternative that evolution is being subverted in that it allows dumber members to live (and breed.) The second also is actually rather contradictory. After all if they are so vastly superior then why would they find it difficult to communicate with us? (The ant analogy is not apt because there is no reason to suppose that as we progress we will not understand even more about how ants work.) Much better argument would be that they just don't care to do so.
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
his is one where FAITH comes into the equation, you can't prove it one way or another, just like any religion, however I choose to believe there are aliens out there
Ok but one has to also accept that if they are in the next galaxy over then no one is going to be stopping by for tea.
Why not, with hyperdrive, wormholes, hyperspace, and stargates they should be able to get here lickity-split!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun