Minimum wage. Pah says she.
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I pay more than minimum wage - if people are worth a wage, that's what you should pay them, not try to shaft them down to a lower wage. According to the worlds richest woman though, Australia should get rid of the minimum wage altogether so that she can pay her workers whatever she likes to compete with regions like Africa. Source[^]. Interestingly enough, she has previously suggested that people who are jealous of wealth could be just as wealthy as her if they stopped drinking and smoking, and spent more time working (presumably at her company to make her richer still). After all, she started from nothing so she knows what she's talking about. Oh wait, she inherited a fortune, so perhaps she doesn't. Fortunately for Australia, their Prime Minister has poured scorn on the idea.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Yeah, she's a real sunshine of a thing, that one. It is said thee is a fundamental difference in the way that workers/employers approach money and taxation. The average worker pays their tax each week, never actually seeing the money which must be handed over. At the other end of the scale, tax is not withheld weekly, but rather paid 'back' in quarterly instalments. Nobody likes having to hand over these chunks if cash, so there is great impetus for finding means by which the amount handed over may be minimized. This difference it was speculated, was responsible for the differences observed in tax evasion rates for different socio-economic groups. I think that I've simplified the study to such an extent to nearly do it's authors a disservice. Never the less, this is a woman whose own biological children have taken court action to recover money they claimed she was withholding. This is a woman who went into warfare mode when the govt announced that a carbon-tax would affect her bottom line (nah, her company's - her ass is still huge). This is a woman that had bought newspapers in a clumsy bid to buy editorial space in national newspaper/radio programs. This is a woman that can't even feed herself a suitable amount. What the elephant would she know about judicious and careful consumption?
Make it work. Then do it better - Andrei Straut
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Ak-2-ewe-leigh, Capitalism is an excellent medium for economic growth . . . at first. The problem arises when, unbridled, it switches from inspiration to domination. At that point, it starts to eat its own children. Socialism, alas, ended up suffering from the same fate (alas, almost from the get-go) and ended up being communist dictatorships - and no longer socialist at all in any moral or ethical sense. However, even if done correctly, it goes against the survival instinct humans (along with other creatures) have evolved. Survival, and various expositions of it, is a form of greed, albeit a necessary one (i.e., protect your genes: self -> children -> family -> clan -> tribe -> nation -> species) So, the socialist experiment failed, and with a few exception, is always doomed to fail (just like mega-corporations destroying capitalism) So, what we need is some well honed in-between derivation or perhaps something altogether new.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
socialist experiment failed
It never got off the ground, I guess it would only work for a population of 1.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
socialist experiment failed
It never got off the ground, I guess it would only work for a population of 1.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
The exception: Kibbutzim in Israel. However (and perhaps weighing towards my theory of an evolutionary predisposition against it?), the children of the Kibutznik's, although raised in a socialist atmosphere by parents and a community favoring this environment, tend to leave. It appears that voluntary socialism is a successful model (and also it doesn't step into the totalitarian realms) It does, however, show that the number can be substantially > 1
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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The exception: Kibbutzim in Israel. However (and perhaps weighing towards my theory of an evolutionary predisposition against it?), the children of the Kibutznik's, although raised in a socialist atmosphere by parents and a community favoring this environment, tend to leave. It appears that voluntary socialism is a successful model (and also it doesn't step into the totalitarian realms) It does, however, show that the number can be substantially > 1
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
number can be substantially > 1
I guess social dynamics ensures that the views of the "leaders" dominates the kibbutz ...
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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And there you have one hell of an example why this corporate capitalistic system is much like a cancer... Edit: and there are alternatives: For example Venus Project
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!!
I love when people don't understand that capitalism may not be perfect, but it is the best thing out there right now. Maybe it's the younger people that don't understand that communism never works. I also love people that cry about minimum wage. We deal with it in the U.S. all the time. People act like raising it will help the economy. Nothing can be further from the truth. The wage should be determined by a person's ability. People get hired at minimum wage, learn their job, and get raises. If they don't get the raises, they can use their new skills to go elsewhere as an experienced worker. If you think of it in terms of being a business owner. Would you hire someone without any skills, and train them at say $5/hr? Most likely the answer is yes. Would you hire him at $10/hr or $15/hr? Probably not. Definitely not as likely as you were at $5/hr. In fact, you might be more inclined to hire 2 or 3 people on a trial basis at $5/hr and over the course of a few months, you pick the best candidate, and at least double his salary. Maybe 2 people have great potential, and you hire 2, or maybe even all 3. So, raising the minimum wage clearly doesn't help. It actually hinders unqualified people's ability to get a break. More times than not, if a person is a good worker, they get promoted from minimum wage jobs to regular wages. If you're in a job for months and months, you either haven't proved yourself, or you should move on to another job.
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C'mon, you wouldn't want poor old Dalek Dave to struggle by on just a three course lunch and reduced expense account would you?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Dalek Dave to struggle by on just a three course lunch
One beer. Another beer. Another beer. And on Fridays, it's a twelve-course dinner.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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And this is why the Daily Mail and the Sun will thwart the federation.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Nationalism, invented scandals, and boobies. Jean-Luc doesn't stand a prayer.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I pay more than minimum wage - if people are worth a wage, that's what you should pay them, not try to shaft them down to a lower wage. According to the worlds richest woman though, Australia should get rid of the minimum wage altogether so that she can pay her workers whatever she likes to compete with regions like Africa. Source[^]. Interestingly enough, she has previously suggested that people who are jealous of wealth could be just as wealthy as her if they stopped drinking and smoking, and spent more time working (presumably at her company to make her richer still). After all, she started from nothing so she knows what she's talking about. Oh wait, she inherited a fortune, so perhaps she doesn't. Fortunately for Australia, their Prime Minister has poured scorn on the idea.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
That creature, I refuse to think of it as female, is one of the most despicable, avaricious bitches around. If nobody is screwing her she is certainly screwing everyone who she can convince to do business with her.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
number can be substantially > 1
I guess social dynamics ensures that the views of the "leaders" dominates the kibbutz ...
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
I worked on once upon a time. The social dynamic is always the bugaboo. Tough enough in a household. There's some degree of sorting: 'religious' vs. 'non-religious', for example, will definitely find there way to a like minded kibbutz. The leadership, however, changes. Meetings, endless talking (yelling), voting, etc. It may be cultural, as well, but stifling descent was not a viable option. And ultimately, well meaning and hard working as they are, and taking turns in all tasks , there's still one insurmountable problem: It's made up of people.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I love when people don't understand that capitalism may not be perfect, but it is the best thing out there right now. Maybe it's the younger people that don't understand that communism never works. I also love people that cry about minimum wage. We deal with it in the U.S. all the time. People act like raising it will help the economy. Nothing can be further from the truth. The wage should be determined by a person's ability. People get hired at minimum wage, learn their job, and get raises. If they don't get the raises, they can use their new skills to go elsewhere as an experienced worker. If you think of it in terms of being a business owner. Would you hire someone without any skills, and train them at say $5/hr? Most likely the answer is yes. Would you hire him at $10/hr or $15/hr? Probably not. Definitely not as likely as you were at $5/hr. In fact, you might be more inclined to hire 2 or 3 people on a trial basis at $5/hr and over the course of a few months, you pick the best candidate, and at least double his salary. Maybe 2 people have great potential, and you hire 2, or maybe even all 3. So, raising the minimum wage clearly doesn't help. It actually hinders unqualified people's ability to get a break. More times than not, if a person is a good worker, they get promoted from minimum wage jobs to regular wages. If you're in a job for months and months, you either haven't proved yourself, or you should move on to another job.
Meanwhile, at $5/hr, they can't afford a place to live and food to eat (maybe enough to eat if they live on the street). Call me a elephanting communist, but I believe a person working a full time job should earn enough to live on.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I pay more than minimum wage - if people are worth a wage, that's what you should pay them, not try to shaft them down to a lower wage. According to the worlds richest woman though, Australia should get rid of the minimum wage altogether so that she can pay her workers whatever she likes to compete with regions like Africa. Source[^]. Interestingly enough, she has previously suggested that people who are jealous of wealth could be just as wealthy as her if they stopped drinking and smoking, and spent more time working (presumably at her company to make her richer still). After all, she started from nothing so she knows what she's talking about. Oh wait, she inherited a fortune, so perhaps she doesn't. Fortunately for Australia, their Prime Minister has poured scorn on the idea.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
I have a counter proposal. A country should ban all imports where the originating country does not have safety, environmental, health, and wage laws that are at least on par across the entire supply chain. This allows two countries to compete on identical footing without one country taking advantage of another countries slavery. But then again, people do like their iPhones, so it probably won't get too far.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I worked on once upon a time. The social dynamic is always the bugaboo. Tough enough in a household. There's some degree of sorting: 'religious' vs. 'non-religious', for example, will definitely find there way to a like minded kibbutz. The leadership, however, changes. Meetings, endless talking (yelling), voting, etc. It may be cultural, as well, but stifling descent was not a viable option. And ultimately, well meaning and hard working as they are, and taking turns in all tasks , there's still one insurmountable problem: It's made up of people.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
It's made up of people
Which makes this interesting[^] and a bit frustrating; especially in light of Susan Cain on TED:The power of introverts[^]
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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I pay more than minimum wage - if people are worth a wage, that's what you should pay them, not try to shaft them down to a lower wage. According to the worlds richest woman though, Australia should get rid of the minimum wage altogether so that she can pay her workers whatever she likes to compete with regions like Africa. Source[^]. Interestingly enough, she has previously suggested that people who are jealous of wealth could be just as wealthy as her if they stopped drinking and smoking, and spent more time working (presumably at her company to make her richer still). After all, she started from nothing so she knows what she's talking about. Oh wait, she inherited a fortune, so perhaps she doesn't. Fortunately for Australia, their Prime Minister has poured scorn on the idea.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
According to the worlds richest woman though, Australia should get rid of the minimum wage altogether so that she can pay her workers whatever she likes to compete with regions like Africa
pah? Would that be Sarah Palin, by any chance? :laugh: PS. I know Australia has republicans; that means they want to replace the Queen as Head of Government with an elected President. I didn't know they had US-style Republicans there.
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I didn't mention Communism. My own, very reasonable, plans for a new world order would first of all seek to manage the planets population down to a sustainable level via a series of genetically-engineered super-virii that rendered the majority of the populus sterile. Of course we'd still need people to till the land and produce food for the remaining breeding herd of humanity so I would have the dregs of society, those that have produced nothing of value retrained to perform the tasks manually and save the remaining fossil resources for the future. I'd probably start with criminals and work down to lawyers and accountants. Hmm, more ideas are formulating as I type but I need to shave my head and feed my persian cat just now. Andy B
LabVIEWstuff wrote:
I'd probably start with criminals and work down to lawyers and accountants.
After the Farcebook and similar IPOs, I would start with lawyers and accountants and work down to criminals such as mass murderers and paedophiles.
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Zimbabwe is a perfect example of a communist state who have gotten rid of the evil capitalists. They live in absolute luxury now... Oh wait...
Isn't everybody there a trillionaire (in their own currency) there? :laugh:
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I love when people don't understand that capitalism may not be perfect, but it is the best thing out there right now. Maybe it's the younger people that don't understand that communism never works. I also love people that cry about minimum wage. We deal with it in the U.S. all the time. People act like raising it will help the economy. Nothing can be further from the truth. The wage should be determined by a person's ability. People get hired at minimum wage, learn their job, and get raises. If they don't get the raises, they can use their new skills to go elsewhere as an experienced worker. If you think of it in terms of being a business owner. Would you hire someone without any skills, and train them at say $5/hr? Most likely the answer is yes. Would you hire him at $10/hr or $15/hr? Probably not. Definitely not as likely as you were at $5/hr. In fact, you might be more inclined to hire 2 or 3 people on a trial basis at $5/hr and over the course of a few months, you pick the best candidate, and at least double his salary. Maybe 2 people have great potential, and you hire 2, or maybe even all 3. So, raising the minimum wage clearly doesn't help. It actually hinders unqualified people's ability to get a break. More times than not, if a person is a good worker, they get promoted from minimum wage jobs to regular wages. If you're in a job for months and months, you either haven't proved yourself, or you should move on to another job.
With a minimum wage in place, do you think the business owner would rather not hire anyone but work 48-hour days?
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With a minimum wage in place, do you think the business owner would rather not hire anyone but work 48-hour days?
(SORRY, THIS WAS MEANT FOR THE PREVIOUS RESPONSE, NOT YOURS) You're blinded by your feelings. Minimum wage is NOT meant for people to live on. Who, in this world aspires to make minimum wage? You make minimum wage while LEARNING or TRAINING. This is a free country, you have the option of moving to a new job, or even a new city. In this country, you are blessed with options that people in other countries do not get.
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With a minimum wage in place, do you think the business owner would rather not hire anyone but work 48-hour days?
In this country, you have the option of going to another job, once you (l)earn your skills. You also have the option of eventually starting your own business. People get what they put into a job. If you sit on your ass all day, and wonder why you're making minimum wage, maybe show some initiative. Initiative is something that people seem to lack. If something in your life isn't satisfactory, change it. I was in a dead end job. Bought a few programming books. Read and studied for a year, and eventually became a programmer. It didn't happen overnight, but I did it. Since those days, I have never stopped learning new things in programming. It was because I have this inner drive now, that I didn't have before. Complacency is people's worst enemy, and EVERYONE can overcome it.
