A little advice
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
Ultimately that is a question only you can answer as everybody has different priorities in their careers and seeks different things. If you decide to pass on the position make sure you voice your concerns:- why do you fear you may loose the joy you get from your work? If you can’t tell anyone directly, leave a note. No employer worth his salt would want to have unhappy employees unless absolutely necessary. If you do take it on the position, how much corporate bullshit would you have to put up with, and how much influence would you have? Would you still get to get your hands dirty? Go to sleep on it and first thing in the morning when you wake up ask yourself what you *really* want to do that day. You'll know what you want to do subconsciously; at the moment you're just arguing yourself out of both of them to keep safe. I find all decisions I have difficulty making consciously are best made after a long sleep when your mind is clear of your normal daily distractions. :zzz: And welcome to the next phase of your CodeProject addiction. :rose:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
Although I am not directly in your situation, I had a boss that sounds much like you. He was the best one I have ever worked with in 25+ years as a software designer. He started off as an engineer, so he helped when he could, took a real interest in what we did without nagging or breathing down our necks, made sure we got whatever we needed (within reason) and deflected as much of the political BS as he could that can occur in a big company. Coming from a similar background as the people in his dept was a real plus. My current boss comes from a financial background and looks at everything very simplistically (according to him, complex software test procedures should only take a few days to write) and cannot understand why tasks take so long. Steve
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
Another thing to think about is if there will be any team members who resent your being made team manager. Will they accept your leadership? Sean Winstead
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
From the way you have explained it, I don't think you have too many options. 1. Don't take the job and end up quitting in disgust in a couple of months. 2. Take the job and play office politics instead of programming. 3. Create a new structure where you become the boss but have an Admin person to do the Corporate crud. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
dshield wrote: I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. Are you ready for a job based on oral communication and negociation rather than spending your day behind a screen ? The pro is that I have had one of former managers who grew from developer to manager, and he took the opportunity to act like a shield to protect developers. It did a lot of good to us. When managers were acting incorrectingly, he did his best to let them know that it was their fault, not developers/QAs/... The con is that, indeed, there is a huge difference between your former duties and the new ones, and you need to use your mind differently than what you were used to. The worst thing is to be forced to cope with crappy internal politics, while remaining calm.
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Although I am not directly in your situation, I had a boss that sounds much like you. He was the best one I have ever worked with in 25+ years as a software designer. He started off as an engineer, so he helped when he could, took a real interest in what we did without nagging or breathing down our necks, made sure we got whatever we needed (within reason) and deflected as much of the political BS as he could that can occur in a big company. Coming from a similar background as the people in his dept was a real plus. My current boss comes from a financial background and looks at everything very simplistically (according to him, complex software test procedures should only take a few days to write) and cannot understand why tasks take so long. Steve
Thanks, Steve. Funny you should mention your managers. In the time at my current job, I've had two managers. One had a PC programming background, and was really very good (a self-proclaimed prodigy). The other had some mainframe experience in past years, but was an actuary, and really didn't know much about the current state of technology. Both tried to keep the corporate BS to a minimum, and did their part in making sure what we needed was available. The programmer-boss sucked in the management category, and so we often felt as if there was no direction in the unit. And since he understood what we were doing, he felt that we should be able to get it done according to his estimates, not ours. It was pretty common for him to cut my estimates in half, or more. Also, when your boss feels strongly about how something should be done, it's pretty difficult to tell him how stupid his idea is, although I often did :-D. The actuary-boss was excellent in managing and setting priorities, but had a habit of promising everything to everybody, even when we insisted there was no possible way to deliver. When MS Projet showed something being completed a month after the deadline, she would start shortening tasks or assigning more overtime until she got the result she wanted. At least she didn't try to get involved in the coding, and let us do the implementation how we thought best. IMHO, the ideal manager would come from a development background. Most people outside of software development don't realize that programmers are driven by a different set of goals. Fame, fortune and glory aren't why people choose programming - OK, scratch fortune :) Dan
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Ultimately that is a question only you can answer as everybody has different priorities in their careers and seeks different things. If you decide to pass on the position make sure you voice your concerns:- why do you fear you may loose the joy you get from your work? If you can’t tell anyone directly, leave a note. No employer worth his salt would want to have unhappy employees unless absolutely necessary. If you do take it on the position, how much corporate bullshit would you have to put up with, and how much influence would you have? Would you still get to get your hands dirty? Go to sleep on it and first thing in the morning when you wake up ask yourself what you *really* want to do that day. You'll know what you want to do subconsciously; at the moment you're just arguing yourself out of both of them to keep safe. I find all decisions I have difficulty making consciously are best made after a long sleep when your mind is clear of your normal daily distractions. :zzz: And welcome to the next phase of your CodeProject addiction. :rose:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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From the way you have explained it, I don't think you have too many options. 1. Don't take the job and end up quitting in disgust in a couple of months. 2. Take the job and play office politics instead of programming. 3. Create a new structure where you become the boss but have an Admin person to do the Corporate crud. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin, Colin Davies wrote: 3. Create a new structure where you become the boss but have an Admin person to do the Corporate crud. Thanks. If I could, this would be the way to go. In fact, it's kind of how things are now while we are without a manager. I'm the defacto team lead, but have no real responsibility. That falls on the interim manager who isn't even in the same state! I'm attending all the meetings that our eventual manager will have to attend, and being involved in some of the decision making, simply because there isn't anyone else in the organization who knows the software like I do. Dan
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dshield wrote: I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. Are you ready for a job based on oral communication and negociation rather than spending your day behind a screen ? The pro is that I have had one of former managers who grew from developer to manager, and he took the opportunity to act like a shield to protect developers. It did a lot of good to us. When managers were acting incorrectingly, he did his best to let them know that it was their fault, not developers/QAs/... The con is that, indeed, there is a huge difference between your former duties and the new ones, and you need to use your mind differently than what you were used to. The worst thing is to be forced to cope with crappy internal politics, while remaining calm.
Thanks, .S.Rod. Several responses (including yours) have indicated that the best managers are former programmers, which is one reason I'm even considering it. One thing I hadn't considered was the negatiation aspect. I'm really not very good at it. If someone asks me a question, I give them what I believe to be the answer. Not an answer, *the* answer. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell them so. In return, I expect the same. This doesn't leave much room for negotiating. If someone asks for x, but plans on settling for y, I'm assuming that x is the minimum acceptable solution. And I don't consider asking for x, when all I want is y, because that seems like a waste of time. Thanks very much for bringing that up. It's definitly something to think about. (And yes, I suck at buying cars. :) ) Dan
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Thanks, .S.Rod. Several responses (including yours) have indicated that the best managers are former programmers, which is one reason I'm even considering it. One thing I hadn't considered was the negatiation aspect. I'm really not very good at it. If someone asks me a question, I give them what I believe to be the answer. Not an answer, *the* answer. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell them so. In return, I expect the same. This doesn't leave much room for negotiating. If someone asks for x, but plans on settling for y, I'm assuming that x is the minimum acceptable solution. And I don't consider asking for x, when all I want is y, because that seems like a waste of time. Thanks very much for bringing that up. It's definitly something to think about. (And yes, I suck at buying cars. :) ) Dan
dshield wrote: And I don't consider asking for x, when all I want is y, because that seems like a waste of time. That's a good beginning by the way. You are not wasting your time when you put together all what people say, and then let them face their own perspectives, i.e. schedule meetings with them to put in practice what they were saying, just to make sure you are not taking all the problems for yourself, while at the same time others reject at you all kind of responsabilities. And of course, all of this while being a nice and calm guy. This is important when you are a former developer since you tend to take all problems for you, and you have to learn not to.
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Hi, all. I hope someone can help me out. I've been a software developer for close to 10 years, working on small teams of < 10 people. I've got an opportunity to become our team's manager, but don't know if I should or not. I work for a financial services company that has recently taken a large interest in what our little group does. I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. Programming is what I really like to do, and dealing with all the corporate BS is something that really sucks. But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this. I've never posted before, but have been hanging out for awhile and feel this is the best place to come for advice. Thanks " Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey
dshield wrote: I'm afraid that if someone unrelated to our team takes the role, what little joy is left in going to work will quickly disappear. You're probably right. It may be that the only way you can preserve it is to take the position. dshield wrote: But I also think (hope?) that I'll have some small influence over the way things get done both politically and technically if I were to be a manager. Right, again! You may, in fact, have a great deal of influence and might surprise yourself with a skillset you don't realize that you have. Management isn't a separate thing, or it shouldn't be, it's a part of the team right alongside the engineers and programmers. dshield wrote: Has anyone else been in a similar situation? And if so, what did you do, and how did it work out? Yup, most of my life. Before I was out of school I was made team leader - a euphemism for a sucker with all the responsibility and none of the authority. But the good part was that I got to do all the requirements analysis, the conceptual design, and partition each project into modules for each of my team. The most intriguing parts I kept for myself, as I was also expected to do design and programming on top of managing. Those were fun times, and I discovered that I have a knack for management. It became dull, though, many years later when I was managing multiple companies and designing nothing myself - watch out for that. Often technical people who excell at what they love most are pushed into upper management too soon, and it can lead to rapid burnout. There's a point in your life when you are ready to let go of the details and direct the big picture, but taking the step into a purely management role before you get there causes problems for you and your team. I'd go for it, were I you. It sounds like a hands-on level of management where you'll still be able to get your hands dirty and have fun. At the same time, you'll be in a position to protect your people from idiots so that they can do what they love doing. Good luck!:) Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003