Finding good staff....
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
There are plenty of jobs further south but to be honest, I don't want to go there. To get a good location costs rise drastically so disposable income drops. Now move north and its much more of an employers market :-D Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) The tigress is here :-D
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
Things is, what kind of people are you trying to attract? If your not paying much then your going to get poor candiates. I know a few good developers, who at the moment that don't have work. Its not that they cannot get work, its just that they would rather wait and get a well paying job, and they can afford to wait. I've seen out there that people are offering some really cheeky amounts. I saw one in London, looking for an experience 'senior' developer in London with 4-6 years experience for 25k - what a joke. People then think, well if thats what the market pays, I will look for another career.
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
I don't envy you! I used to hate interviewing people! Regardless of the type adverts we placed, we were even offering world wide travel to install the software they developed, the quality of applicants we got were "interesting" to say the least. I almost got to the point if the applicant could, spell "Computer" without too many mistakes they would get the job. Now, once they saw our company I could understand them rejecting us, but not even applying for the job? We even advertised nationaly as well as locally, in the Birmingam (UK) area.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants. - Isaac Newton 1676
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
The first question that springs to mind is where are you getting your candidates from? If it's via an agency, well some are a lot better than others. If it's by direct marketing, maybe it's worth looking at the medium you're using and the message that's being presented. Funnily enough, I'm working in Hampshire as well...but I'm not considering jumping ship just yet. For one thing, I doubt many other companies would want me anyway until I get my "personal issues" sorted out. For another, my current salary would be very hard to beat. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
wayward wrote: I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for I did that recently, I went and explained what an inner join was when the question was to explain an outer join. I even answered the followup question from the same assumption (thus getting that wrong too). :rolleyes: If the candidate only did it a few times, maybe they missheard the question? I didn't even twig that I was answering the wrong question until the interviewer mentioned "outer join" afterwards when he gave the definition I was meant to. I should have guessed something was up when I saw the bemused look on his face when I was talking about only returning rows with matching data with some long winded "customer - order" example. Oh well, we live and learn. Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. That way you can keep the level of rapport and point them at the question you really want answering. If they still ignore you, outright question their language comprehension skills, they may me arrogant or they may have some sort of learning disability.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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Things is, what kind of people are you trying to attract? If your not paying much then your going to get poor candiates. I know a few good developers, who at the moment that don't have work. Its not that they cannot get work, its just that they would rather wait and get a well paying job, and they can afford to wait. I've seen out there that people are offering some really cheeky amounts. I saw one in London, looking for an experience 'senior' developer in London with 4-6 years experience for 25k - what a joke. People then think, well if thats what the market pays, I will look for another career.
Giles wrote: what kind of people are you trying to attract? Interesting you should ask. We are after two kinds of people. The first (and core of our staff) are the stars who are great under pressure, eager to pick up new technologies and love challenging problem. These people have to satisfy two requirements: 1. Clever / Bright / Intelligent etc 2. Have a proven history of getting things done. However, we believe in playing to strengths and not setting people up to fail so there is a second type of person who is happy with the more mundane coding of well understood areas that would drive the former type insane... These people have to satisfy just a single requirement: 1. Have a proven history of getting things done. Giles wrote: developer in London with 4-6 years experience for 25k - what a joke I have to agree. They probably have the misguided idea that the candidate that says yes to that salary will be as good as the many who wouldn't touch it... James.
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wayward wrote: I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for I did that recently, I went and explained what an inner join was when the question was to explain an outer join. I even answered the followup question from the same assumption (thus getting that wrong too). :rolleyes: If the candidate only did it a few times, maybe they missheard the question? I didn't even twig that I was answering the wrong question until the interviewer mentioned "outer join" afterwards when he gave the definition I was meant to. I should have guessed something was up when I saw the bemused look on his face when I was talking about only returning rows with matching data with some long winded "customer - order" example. Oh well, we live and learn. Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. That way you can keep the level of rapport and point them at the question you really want answering. If they still ignore you, outright question their language comprehension skills, they may me arrogant or they may have some sort of learning disability.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
How did the interview (and result) go? Did our well meant advice sell you down the river? :rolleyes:
A pack of geeks, pale and skinny, feeling a bit pumped and macho after a morning of strenuous mouse clicking and dragging, arriving en masse at the gym. They carefully reset the machines to the lowest settings, offer to spot for each other on the 5 lb dumbells, and rediscover the art of macrame while attempting to jump rope. -Roger Wright on my colleagues and I going to gym each day at lunch
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wayward wrote: I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for I did that recently, I went and explained what an inner join was when the question was to explain an outer join. I even answered the followup question from the same assumption (thus getting that wrong too). :rolleyes: If the candidate only did it a few times, maybe they missheard the question? I didn't even twig that I was answering the wrong question until the interviewer mentioned "outer join" afterwards when he gave the definition I was meant to. I should have guessed something was up when I saw the bemused look on his face when I was talking about only returning rows with matching data with some long winded "customer - order" example. Oh well, we live and learn. Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. That way you can keep the level of rapport and point them at the question you really want answering. If they still ignore you, outright question their language comprehension skills, they may me arrogant or they may have some sort of learning disability.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. Oh I do regularly... But I get tired of asking 'can you give me a specific example instead of a general reply?' You see, we do competancy based interviews so the whole premise is based around the candidate telling us a specific example from their past that shows they have the quality we are looking for. I describe in detail about how I can only take specific examples plus even give them a list of competancies and respective descriptions. You would be surprised how many times you can go around this loop
do { printf("Give me a specific example when you had to communicate a complex idea to someone"); } while (answer == "Well, I would.....")James. -
wayward wrote: I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for I did that recently, I went and explained what an inner join was when the question was to explain an outer join. I even answered the followup question from the same assumption (thus getting that wrong too). :rolleyes: If the candidate only did it a few times, maybe they missheard the question? I didn't even twig that I was answering the wrong question until the interviewer mentioned "outer join" afterwards when he gave the definition I was meant to. I should have guessed something was up when I saw the bemused look on his face when I was talking about only returning rows with matching data with some long winded "customer - order" example. Oh well, we live and learn. Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. That way you can keep the level of rapport and point them at the question you really want answering. If they still ignore you, outright question their language comprehension skills, they may me arrogant or they may have some sort of learning disability.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Er, yes David. I interviewed you, and your understanding was far better than most. Some people had the ba11s to say "Oh yes, we did that in 2nd year". To which I felt like saying "If you ever get a job you'll be doing it for the rest of your life!". PS. Have you been contacted yet regarding the job? - Don't want to let the cat out of the bag if you don't know yet. :)
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The first question that springs to mind is where are you getting your candidates from? If it's via an agency, well some are a lot better than others. If it's by direct marketing, maybe it's worth looking at the medium you're using and the message that's being presented. Funnily enough, I'm working in Hampshire as well...but I'm not considering jumping ship just yet. For one thing, I doubt many other companies would want me anyway until I get my "personal issues" sorted out. For another, my current salary would be very hard to beat. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: where are you getting your candidates from? Mostly from agencies... In fact they are so starved of placements that our MD spends a significant portion of his day dealing with them. I think a lot has to do with the company... I used to work for Sony and was never short of candidates. But since moving to a smaller company I have noticed the difference. Its like we get the scraps from the big corporates. Its a shame because (unlike the big companies) there are no fixed ways on how to do things, we get cool toys and the teleworking is excellent. Plus no-one pressues me to be a manager if I happen to be good a coding. James.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: where are you getting your candidates from? Mostly from agencies... In fact they are so starved of placements that our MD spends a significant portion of his day dealing with them. I think a lot has to do with the company... I used to work for Sony and was never short of candidates. But since moving to a smaller company I have noticed the difference. Its like we get the scraps from the big corporates. Its a shame because (unlike the big companies) there are no fixed ways on how to do things, we get cool toys and the teleworking is excellent. Plus no-one pressues me to be a manager if I happen to be good a coding. James.
I sounds like a good environment, so well done on that front. :) That being the case, I wonder if the problem's monetary. What sort of salaries are you offering? PRP bonuses and relocation costs for those who have to move can make a huge difference to whether candidates come forward too. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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David Wulff wrote: Here's an idea. Unless the candidate is talking about something else that is interesting to you from an assesment point of view, interrupt and ask them the question again from a slightly different angle. Oh I do regularly... But I get tired of asking 'can you give me a specific example instead of a general reply?' You see, we do competancy based interviews so the whole premise is based around the candidate telling us a specific example from their past that shows they have the quality we are looking for. I describe in detail about how I can only take specific examples plus even give them a list of competancies and respective descriptions. You would be surprised how many times you can go around this loop
do { printf("Give me a specific example when you had to communicate a complex idea to someone"); } while (answer == "Well, I would.....")James.Fair enough. Well in that case I would start the interview with the line: Hi [candidate name] my name is James and I am really not in the mood for this right now so give me any BS and you'll be out that door quicker than you can fark the chorus to "hey mr taliban give me your banana". (See the SoapBox for my definition of "to fark". The taliban song was included on an excellent flash movie that I can't seem to find again, with bush and Powel banging bongo drums.)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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Er, yes David. I interviewed you, and your understanding was far better than most. Some people had the ba11s to say "Oh yes, we did that in 2nd year". To which I felt like saying "If you ever get a job you'll be doing it for the rest of your life!". PS. Have you been contacted yet regarding the job? - Don't want to let the cat out of the bag if you don't know yet. :)
Bernhard Hofmann wrote: PS. Have you been contacted yet regarding the job? - Don't want to let the cat out of the bag if you don't know yet. Somebody has a secret to tell by the sounds of it...;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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I've just had to sit through another interview and listen to the candidate ignore me and answer what he he wanted instead of what I asked for. I don't know anything more about him than when he walked in... Where are all the good developers? I see lots of good articles and discussion on this site so they must exist. I don't suppose there is a forum for advertising positions? We are about to get funding and will be expanding a lot. I can't even tempt the good guys out of the woodwork by telling them about the cool C++ and .NET development we do. If there is a forum for this then can someone point me to it. If not, you live in the UK (we are in Hampshire) and are a little curious, then get in touch. James.
There is a Job Advertisement section on Code Project. The link for it is near the bottom of the left menubar under the "Other Stuff" heading.
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I sounds like a good environment, so well done on that front. :) That being the case, I wonder if the problem's monetary. What sort of salaries are you offering? PRP bonuses and relocation costs for those who have to move can make a huge difference to whether candidates come forward too. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: where are you getting your candidates from? Mostly from agencies... In fact they are so starved of placements that our MD spends a significant portion of his day dealing with them. I think a lot has to do with the company... I used to work for Sony and was never short of candidates. But since moving to a smaller company I have noticed the difference. Its like we get the scraps from the big corporates. Its a shame because (unlike the big companies) there are no fixed ways on how to do things, we get cool toys and the teleworking is excellent. Plus no-one pressues me to be a manager if I happen to be good a coding. James.
If the 'working from home' is a full-time possibility rather than an 'occasional nicety' then I am definately interested. I've been searching desperately for a new job for the last 6 months but to no avail, mainly due to having to deal with useless agencies. Some of my work can be found here and on my own website: http://www.salamandersoftware.biz[^]. If that's got you interested then let me know I can send you an up to date CV. Derek Lakin. I wish I was what I thought I was when I wished I was what I am. Salamander Software Ltd.
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Er, yes David. I interviewed you, and your understanding was far better than most. Some people had the ba11s to say "Oh yes, we did that in 2nd year". To which I felt like saying "If you ever get a job you'll be doing it for the rest of your life!". PS. Have you been contacted yet regarding the job? - Don't want to let the cat out of the bag if you don't know yet. :)
Bernhard Hofmann wrote: your understanding was far better than most So people keep telling me, but I always find it quite astonishing to hear because I'm kind of stuck in the mindset "well d'uh of course". I suppose everybody is like that? ** Dave looks nervously around the room but everyone is staring at their feet ** Bernhard Hofmann wrote: Some people had the ba11s to say "Oh yes, we did that in 2nd year". To which I felt like saying "If you ever get a job you'll be doing it for the rest of your life!". Whilst I'll never belittle anyone who has the means or the drive to go to university it seems that people can be qualified up to the eyeballs but not have the skills to put it into practise. I, personally, chose to take the practical experience route when I left college, with the option of picking up a university degree or two in my mid twenties should the need arise. I've always counted on people seeing a person's potential rather than their achievements. Of course you get those people who are degreed and skillfull, but forget about them else my argument wont make sense. :-O
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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If the 'working from home' is a full-time possibility rather than an 'occasional nicety' then I am definately interested. I've been searching desperately for a new job for the last 6 months but to no avail, mainly due to having to deal with useless agencies. Some of my work can be found here and on my own website: http://www.salamandersoftware.biz[^]. If that's got you interested then let me know I can send you an up to date CV. Derek Lakin. I wish I was what I thought I was when I wished I was what I am. Salamander Software Ltd.
Derek Lakin wrote: If the 'working from home' is a full-time possibility rather than an 'occasional nicety' then I am definately interested. Actually, its a bit of a necessity because if everyone turned up for work on the same day then there wouldn't be enough desks. We have grown in the last few months and will be moving to new offices soon. When things are more normal it depends on the stage of the project - at the start I tend to be in the office (where there are plenty of whiteboards), when coding I'm always at home (although I try to do at least one day a week in the office) and and the end I'm either in the office or on customer site. The only two guidelines are: 1. Don't let communication suffer 2. Don't miss your deadline But there is a loophole with guideline 2: if you communicate your lateness early on then the deadline may be moved. James.
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There are plenty of jobs further south but to be honest, I don't want to go there. To get a good location costs rise drastically so disposable income drops. Now move north and its much more of an employers market :-D Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: Now move north and its much more of an employers market Indeed! Why is it that employers prefer to locate in places no one in his right mind would want to live? I've heard a number of excuses, but none that make any sense. I can understand that companies with hardware to ship need good infrastructure, but software companies don't have that excuse. They locate in large, crowded, expensive urban centers, then whine about the costs of doing business and the inability to hire good people! As much as I joke about this place's awful climate, some 500K to 1M people choose to come here every year to vacation, so my tastes are obviously not universal. An employer could build an 80,000 sf building here and own it, for what it would cost to rent one for a month in Los Angeles. And employess making $50K a year here would live like kings, rather than as paupers in CA. It makes no sense at all... Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003