Learning a language using an IDE or text editor.
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
IDE will maybe help you along the way but will also make your life difficult along the way. It does a lot of things for you, and it is good to know those things it does. With a text editor, you have to do those things yourself, thus you learn more. IDEs is not supported by all platforms so if the day arrives that you have to develop on a platform which doesn't support an IDE you'll be struggling coz you've been using a IDE. Personally if I was you, I'd start off using text editor and later move to IDE. You get some kick ass text editors these days which can do exactly what IDEs can do.
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IDE - no contest. It helps you at every turn: it prompts you with method names and properties, it helps remind you of function parameters, and it tells you when you misspell something as you go along. It handles indentation, and it works exactly the same when debugging as it does when you are editing. Ignore the purists: I started with text editors and I wouldn't go back!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Same here press ! To execute shell script , vi ? Vi ? Vi ?
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
If was always fun to realize you had typed your C code into vi and it was executing it as a command string...No! Stop! Noooooooo......
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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IDE hands down - especially when you are just starting. I mean you should, just for the experience, code apps up in using a notepad type text editor and command line compiler, be sure to use mutiliple files and include and if your chosen environment allows it build scripts. Doing this as the main way of working just strikes me as bizarre and contrarian. I worked in one place where vi was the only editor hard-core enough, funnily enough I used emacs (the only viable alternative for our environnment) as was far more productive.
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I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
I actually got pretty fast using vi for coding but it was vanilla c in those days ( shudder ) I also used WordStar for coding COBOL ( double shudder ) when intellisense first came out I didn't like it as it got in the way but would find it very difficult to live without now given the sheer size of frameworks these days. IDE 1 : Text Editor 0
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
IDE definitely.
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If was always fun to realize you had typed your C code into vi and it was executing it as a command string...No! Stop! Noooooooo......
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
IDE for sure, but once you have the basics of the language, allocate some time to learn what the IDE has been doing for you. If its been creating stubs/boilerplate stuff, then check those find out what they're doing, and why. Also be familiar with the structure of any project files or solution files, they aren't the language but you'll likely need to change them at some point. Taking an app that builds in the IDE and then build it yourself via the command-line tools is a good idea. Finally learn what else the IDE can do, can it help build unit tests?, help during the design? etc
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Much as I would like the newbies to feel pain, IDE it helps in leaning syntax...
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
IDE.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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IDE - no contest. It helps you at every turn: it prompts you with method names and properties, it helps remind you of function parameters, and it tells you when you misspell something as you go along. It handles indentation, and it works exactly the same when debugging as it does when you are editing. Ignore the purists: I started with text editors and I wouldn't go back!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
IDEm :rolleyes:
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
The IDE solves many problems but IDE-bloat makes it tricky to master. When I search for text, I use my standalone editor, UltraEdit. Its search facilities are better then VS and I can see contexts which are much nicer to navigate than with the IDE. In short, don't be shy to use things that complement the IDE. You sometimes need more than a hammer and chisel in your toolbox. :) :thumbsup:
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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Well, technically I didn't start with text editors: it was punched cards, which were like text editors with bad attitude and no "backspace" key... :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I seem to recall that there was a backspace key - it punched all holes in the column which was read as ASCII 127 or whatever the EBCDIC equivalent was. What you didn't have was the cursor control keys. Generally it was as easy to copy the card up to the error and continue from there. I'd agree about using the IDE being much beter though although the ext editor approach does have a few benifits primarily it encourages you to get the syntax correct in the first place. The even greater benifit of punched cards or more accurately the day's wait for the printout in the bucket run was to ensure that you understood the code you were writing.
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IDE - no contest. It helps you at every turn: it prompts you with method names and properties, it helps remind you of function parameters, and it tells you when you misspell something as you go along. It handles indentation, and it works exactly the same when debugging as it does when you are editing. Ignore the purists: I started with text editors and I wouldn't go back!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I started with something "less" than a text editor. Basic on Commodore 64, and believe me, it was a pain in the .... neck ;) After that I went to AmigaBasic a real text editor, I traveled through many different programming languages and editors until I landed on Visual Basic V. 1.0. It was like arrive to haven (Programmer's haven, of course). Water ran under bridges and now I am using Visual Studio (C#), and there is no way to return to my text editor's time. It is like get down from a limo to travel on a wheelbarrow. Of course this is my personal opinion, no offense :laugh:
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
Thanks all for your comments, seems I'll be playing with both then!
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
Honestly, it depends on the IDE and your environment. I would say multiple monitors is more important that an IDE, but having BOTH is better. Also, I recommend the PAINFULLY obvious... Please spend a LOT of time READING code. You would not expect someone to be a good author who had never read a book, would you? So, the more code you read, the more you will start to pick up, and leverage later on. There is nothing wrong with a Good IDE. But if the IDE is constantly saying "Please wait while we do some background work", and it slows you down... Then it might be frustrating/painful. On the other hand, if it is responsive, and works, and has easy access to help, etc. I think it is a great way to learn. And I have punched cards, and worked with TECO (optimized for Paper Terminal Editing, on a PDP/11). I use NotePad++ for a lot, but I use a couple of IDEs where they make sense. Syntax highlighting can significantly help with learning a language, and specifically reading source code... Best of luck....
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
Either way is fine for learning the language and OO principles. But part of what you need to learn is how to use an IDE, you need to know how to use the tools for scaffolding, building, debugging, etc. because this is how most software shops do things. So I'd say go ahead and use whatever IDE is appropriate for your language, because you'll need to know how to use it.
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
It really depend on how much time you can devote to learn a new language with its libraries. Also how in-depth you want to know the new language or programming paradigm. If you have a project waiting to be developed and you are coming to speed on the language then a IDE will get you there quicker. A good IDE (i.e. Visual Studio) is an memory augmentation as well as a guiding tool. Projects involve not just the language you will have to know but also the mountain of libraries as well. However, if you really want to burn the language construct into memory, using a text editor will do that, because you have to correct any mistakes you've made and we all know we learn best from our mistakes. If you are absolute beginner start to learn to program, text editor might be easier path, but if you are seasoned programmer just stepping into other language and already familiar with how IDE works, then an IDE probably the way to go. Fighting an IDE at the same time while trying to understand a new syntax is a double edges sword.
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Hee hee. At college we used punched cards, because the lecturer was a b'tard, for machine code projects. By the time I started working the world had moved on to mag tapes and 'washing machine' removable disk platters. Thems was the days. :nostalgicSigh:
I had a class that taught us DEC PDP-11 assembly language as preparation for the follow-on course in real-time programming. We did the projects for the PDP-11 assembly language course on punched cards, running a PDP-11 simulator on the university's IBM mainframe. This was not a fun experience, since the simulator was a graduate student's thesis project, and not especially, er, complete.
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Hi, I'm very new to object oriented programming. Having just read Text editor Vs IDE[^] do folks think from the start it would be better to learn using a text editor rather than an IDE (Honest question...don't want to start any arguments :) )?
Text editor? IDE?, no, you should start by writing your code on paper, then sending it to a professional mainframe operator for him to turn it into punched cards and run it, it may take around 4 weeks to get the results, so better make no mistakes... ;P Seriously, given that IDEs do a lot of magic being the scenes, i recommend you to start with a text editor (Notepad++ is a good one) and compile by hand, this way you'll have a better grasp of what you're really doing. Don't like the text editor?, then you may want to use an IDE, but start with empty projects and turn off code completition (Intellisense on VS).
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