Should I take the time to learn C#
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I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks I bought a book some time ago called "A programmers introduction to C#" and found it was just perfect for someone with a lot of C++ experience wanting to get an idea of what it's all about. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893115623/qid=1045773783/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-4232208-5526231?v=glance&s=books&n=507846[^] This led me to try it and find it extremely useful for certain situations. However my bias is that I am a partner in a very small software development shop where we are doing extremely well and time to market is becoming increasingly important to us. I wouldn't use Visual Basic on principles but found that C# is a nice middle ground between C and VB but you get all the nice goodies that make things much faster. If you are the sort of person that likes to tweak algorithms for fun you probably won't find any use for C#. I guess the only other argument which I really don't care about personally is that it seems that an increasingly C# is featuring in more help wanted ad's.
J Cardinal wrote: I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks 7"??? I only used 8" and 5¼" :confused: Regards Thomas
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As an old C and C++ programmer - I mean from the dawn of the languages - is there a concrete reason why I should make the investment in time ( I have the tools already ) to learn the language. What exactly does the language provide that C or C++ does not. I was told several years ago that in order to keep up I would need to learn VB ( HA!) and Java which I never did and never regretted. As a matter of fact my company made some bucks writting DLL's for people to use in their VB apps. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
If you want to develop for the web, then the answer is a total "yes'. If you don't, then the answer is probably 'no', because I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Yes. A few reasons: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. Ergo, you must learn C#.:) [edit]I just realized I didn't answer what facilities C# offers. The answer is the .NET framework. We've already established that C++.NET is crap, so you can really only get to .NET from C#, and .NET is the future.[/edit]
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. David Stone wrote: Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. Without Haskel.NET or similar, language interop is a stinking pile of manure. Anyone who programs C++ and *can't* ( as opposed to does not want to ) learn C# is a moron. They are virtually the same, syntactically. There is no benefit to interop when the same idea is expressed in basically the same way by all the languages on offer. David Stone wrote: C# is cool. Yes, it sure can be. David Stone wrote: .NET is the future./ The future of what though ? Developing web apps, I agree. Desktop apps, the jury is still out IMO. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
J Cardinal wrote: I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks 7"??? I only used 8" and 5¼" :confused: Regards Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you. -
J Cardinal wrote: I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks 7"??? I only used 8" and 5¼" :confused: Regards Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you.Hell I can remember paper tape, card sorters and readers , 1100 terminals, termcap, printcap,Dr. Dobbs Tiny C compiler , Bell Labs C++ to C to ccp method of compiling C++,and Fortran. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
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Then you assume that .NET is gonna stay around and that C# as a language is tied to it and is not very good as a standalone language in its own right. Not that I am web developer anyway because that is only , at best, 5-10% of our work - although it could be more in the future. Cool is not a factor - If I want to be cool I turn on the AC and code some Assembler. What I want to be is efficient and to not get to far behind the curve in Windows development. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
Richard Stringer wrote: C# as a language is tied to it and is not very good as a standalone language in its own right. There is simply no other way to write C# as of today. C# and Java are very similar, and not only in this respect. Richard Stringer wrote: although it could be more in the future. If you care about that aspect of your work, you *need* C#. It should only take you a weekend to learn anyhow. If that 5-10% is expendable, then you don't need it. Richard Stringer wrote: What I want to be is efficient and to not get to far behind the curve in Windows development. For both of these reasons, you should learn C#. ASP.NET is most certainly the most efficient way to do web work. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
If you want to develop for the web, then the answer is a total "yes'. If you don't, then the answer is probably 'no', because I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
J Cardinal wrote: However my bias is that I am a partner in a very small software development shop where we are doing extremely well and time to market is becoming increasingly important to us. Almost my exact situation. I will take a look at the book in question. J Cardinal wrote: but you get all the nice goodies that make things much faster We have an extensive library of code that we use to speed up development such as the Printing Class I have here on CG. We still, however use CGI for most of our web applications and that is the kind of stuff I am trying to avoid. J Cardinal wrote: guess the only other argument which I really don't care about personally is that it seems that an increasingly C# is featuring in more help wanted ad's. If it comes to this I am in deep Do- Do Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
If you want to learn a language that is similar in syntax to C++ and have the ability to run on platforms other than Windows then go with Java. Java would be a perfect replacement for CGI. If you just want to stick with Windows, then learn C#. Maybe try out ATL Server also. The C# syntax will take you all of 15 minutes to master. From there, it's just learning the Framework. Jason Gerard qeou kai kurioV Iasou Cristou douloV
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If you want to develop for the web, then the answer is a total "yes'. If you don't, then the answer is probably 'no', because I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. David Stone wrote: Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. Without Haskel.NET or similar, language interop is a stinking pile of manure. Anyone who programs C++ and *can't* ( as opposed to does not want to ) learn C# is a moron. They are virtually the same, syntactically. There is no benefit to interop when the same idea is expressed in basically the same way by all the languages on offer. David Stone wrote: C# is cool. Yes, it sure can be. David Stone wrote: .NET is the future./ The future of what though ? Developing web apps, I agree. Desktop apps, the jury is still out IMO. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: Desktop apps, the jury is still out IMO. I agree with you there...desktop development, until everybody has the runtime, and a nice way to upgrade the runtime, is still almost not worth it unless you are talking about a closed system where you can control what goes onto the computers(corporate network for instance).
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
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If you want to develop for the web, then the answer is a total "yes'. If you don't, then the answer is probably 'no', because I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. And do what - mow the yard? I'd almost do this for free if I had to. They are gonna carry me outa here and bury me with a MSDN subscription in my pocket. Richard :) I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
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Christian Graus wrote: Desktop apps, the jury is still out IMO. I agree with you there...desktop development, until everybody has the runtime, and a nice way to upgrade the runtime, is still almost not worth it unless you are talking about a closed system where you can control what goes onto the computers(corporate network for instance).
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
Did you catch my thread about the idiot who wrote a WDM article about how C# is the right choice for '95% of windows development projects' now ? Bah. No surprise, he's trying to sell a C# book. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Yes, I recently broke the news to Donna that I have no intention of ever retiring.... Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Christian Graus wrote: I'd guess from your post that you're old enough to be likely to retire before C# manages to become a worthwhile way to write desktop applications. And do what - mow the yard? I'd almost do this for free if I had to. They are gonna carry me outa here and bury me with a MSDN subscription in my pocket. Richard :) I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
That is so cool. I thought I was the only programmer who felt that way. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Did you catch my thread about the idiot who wrote a WDM article about how C# is the right choice for '95% of windows development projects' now ? Bah. No surprise, he's trying to sell a C# book. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Yeah. I saw that...pretty amazing. Unless Microsoft provides the framework with Windows, and a good way of updating (Side by side framework versioning can get very ugly), then desktop development is not a really viable solution.
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
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I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks I bought a book some time ago called "A programmers introduction to C#" and found it was just perfect for someone with a lot of C++ experience wanting to get an idea of what it's all about. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893115623/qid=1045773783/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-4232208-5526231?v=glance&s=books&n=507846[^] This led me to try it and find it extremely useful for certain situations. However my bias is that I am a partner in a very small software development shop where we are doing extremely well and time to market is becoming increasingly important to us. I wouldn't use Visual Basic on principles but found that C# is a nice middle ground between C and VB but you get all the nice goodies that make things much faster. If you are the sort of person that likes to tweak algorithms for fun you probably won't find any use for C#. I guess the only other argument which I really don't care about personally is that it seems that an increasingly C# is featuring in more help wanted ad's.
7 inch floppy discs ? I knew about 8 inch ( which I never used ) and 5 1/4 ( which I used a ton of ), 3 and 3 1/2 ( I forget the order, but one of those is what we use today, and the other was Amstrad only ). Was there such a thing as 7 inch, or did you mean 8 ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
J Cardinal wrote: I'm an "old time" c and c++ programmer, not quite from the dawn, but I have used CPM, JCL and 7 inch floppy disks 7"??? I only used 8" and 5¼" :confused: Regards Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you.Ooops - just said the same. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. David Stone wrote: Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. Without Haskel.NET or similar, language interop is a stinking pile of manure. Anyone who programs C++ and *can't* ( as opposed to does not want to ) learn C# is a moron. They are virtually the same, syntactically. There is no benefit to interop when the same idea is expressed in basically the same way by all the languages on offer. David Stone wrote: C# is cool. Yes, it sure can be. David Stone wrote: .NET is the future./ The future of what though ? Developing web apps, I agree. Desktop apps, the jury is still out IMO. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. No it is not. It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not.
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Yes. A few reasons: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. Ergo, you must learn C#.:) [edit]I just realized I didn't answer what facilities C# offers. The answer is the .NET framework. We've already established that C++.NET is crap, so you can really only get to .NET from C#, and .NET is the future.[/edit]
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
David Stone wrote: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. 1) MC++ rules. 2) true 3) ???? 4) What's wrong with 3rd party languages? 5) HAHAHAHAHA 6) true 7) Ice cream is cool. C# is a programming language.
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Christian Graus wrote: David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. No it is not. It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not. If by .NET language, you mean ugly hack on an existing language, then I'm with you, 100%. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003