Where does it end?
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Sander Rossel wrote:
But in reality I've been doing WinForms for over a month now
Probably they've realized there's someone who knows what he's doing in WinForms and need to capitalize on that before you leave :laugh:
Actually they didn't know. I quit my last job (three months ago) because I wanted to do something else than WinForms. The company I work for now doesn't do WinForms at all. They assured me I'd never do WinForms again! So then this customer called "We need a programmer for some quick bugfixes asap! We need a HTML and CSS expert!" A colleague and me would do the job. Then they called again "Actually, we need someone with AngularJS skills." I actually spend an entire day learning AngularJS, because I didn't know it yet (my colleague does know it). But the day before we'd get started they called again "Actually, do you have a WinForms programmer? We need it more than the web stuff!" And so here I am doing WinForms programming again. Not quite what I had in mind, but it's only for a few weeks :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Actually they didn't know. I quit my last job (three months ago) because I wanted to do something else than WinForms. The company I work for now doesn't do WinForms at all. They assured me I'd never do WinForms again! So then this customer called "We need a programmer for some quick bugfixes asap! We need a HTML and CSS expert!" A colleague and me would do the job. Then they called again "Actually, we need someone with AngularJS skills." I actually spend an entire day learning AngularJS, because I didn't know it yet (my colleague does know it). But the day before we'd get started they called again "Actually, do you have a WinForms programmer? We need it more than the web stuff!" And so here I am doing WinForms programming again. Not quite what I had in mind, but it's only for a few weeks :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Ah, I see - it's that client who exactly knows what he needs! :laugh: At least your time spent learning AngularJS won't have been wasted once you're done with this :) By the way, you said somewhere in this thread that n-order-sorting is being done with additional entries in that ComboBox. But at least now that you have this solution in place it would be easy to allow the user to flexibly chain sorting columns. Not that I want to lengthen your time with WinForms though ;)
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*** DISCLAIMER *** This isn't a programming question, because I've solved the programming problem myself. Rather, I'm interested in your opinion regarding the solution, clever or 'clever'? So today I had a nice little challenge. My application has a grid which can be sorted on various columns, asc and desc. Now the sorting isn't applied by clicking the column header, but by selecting a value from a drop down (Name, Name (descending), Title, Title (descending) etc.). I was thinking I could just have a switch statement where I check which ordering the user chose (which would make me extend the switch for each new ordering), or... I could abstract this away. Of course I went for the second option. Now to make this work (and it works nicely, adding a new ordering is a piece of cake) I had to write the following function:
SomeFunction(string caption, Func, Expression>, IQueryable> linqFunction, Expression> expression) { ... }
Since this is a WinForms application though, and WinForms and generics don't go well together I'm more or less forced to use a
dynamiclater on as it's quite impossible to get the values ofTElementandTKeyfromobject. I'm thinking this isn't ideal in terms of complexity and readability, but it is pretty neat because adding a new ordering is really simple (one line of simple code) and guaranteed to work on the first try (you'll never forget to change that switch statement again). And the solution is even re-usable for the filter functionality I need as well (which, of course, becomes a breeze as well)! So judging from that, clever or 'clever'? And where do you draw the line for cleverness vs. readability/simplicity?Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Sander: Yes, it's 'clever' code. I have many years with Winforms, and the DataGridView. Also with building software for users, using a team of developers. To my mind (based on your necessarily limited description) you are re-coding something that the DataGridView already does. It does it (a) more efficiently than your code, (b) with less potential for support issues (ie, bugs), and (c) in a more user-friendly manner. If you were on my team I would see two problems. They are very common problems, so fairly straightforward to deal with. The first problem is: Why on earth do you need to invoke the sort from a drop-down? Does the client really want to pay $10,000 to be able to sort clunky-fashion, instead of just click the damn header like every other right-thinking user? Go back to the user and enlighten them on what they really want to do here. The second problem is: You (the developer) have decided (as developers often do) to code your way out of a corner. You develop code that must be laboriously explained (although it is excitingly generic). Then you post the code on a geeky forum, looking for approval. I know why you've done that: because you know there are other guys on your team who will diss your 'clever' code. Pro tip: you are writing Winforms apps for end users. You have not yet been called to write cross-platform compilers for GoogIntelSoft. As your boss I would tell you: "Sander, when we deliver that software (next week BTW), our client will not pay us one red cent extra for the cleverness of your grid sorting code. Any bugs it generates in the approval period will cost me money."
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Sander: Yes, it's 'clever' code. I have many years with Winforms, and the DataGridView. Also with building software for users, using a team of developers. To my mind (based on your necessarily limited description) you are re-coding something that the DataGridView already does. It does it (a) more efficiently than your code, (b) with less potential for support issues (ie, bugs), and (c) in a more user-friendly manner. If you were on my team I would see two problems. They are very common problems, so fairly straightforward to deal with. The first problem is: Why on earth do you need to invoke the sort from a drop-down? Does the client really want to pay $10,000 to be able to sort clunky-fashion, instead of just click the damn header like every other right-thinking user? Go back to the user and enlighten them on what they really want to do here. The second problem is: You (the developer) have decided (as developers often do) to code your way out of a corner. You develop code that must be laboriously explained (although it is excitingly generic). Then you post the code on a geeky forum, looking for approval. I know why you've done that: because you know there are other guys on your team who will diss your 'clever' code. Pro tip: you are writing Winforms apps for end users. You have not yet been called to write cross-platform compilers for GoogIntelSoft. As your boss I would tell you: "Sander, when we deliver that software (next week BTW), our client will not pay us one red cent extra for the cleverness of your grid sorting code. Any bugs it generates in the approval period will cost me money."
Robert g Blair wrote:
something that the DataGridView already does
I have had this problem before and sorting a DataGridView is somehow a very difficult task when you're not using DataViews...
Robert g Blair wrote:
Why on earth do you need to invoke the sort from a drop-down?
Because it's much easier than sorting the DataGridView without a DataView (why is this so hard anyway?).
Robert g Blair wrote:
Then you post the code on a geeky forum, looking for approval
Actually I don't. I was expecting this to fail the 'clever'-test. But where does real clever become 'clever'? That I wonder. And I wondered that when writing the code. It does everything I need and it does it well (better than the DataGridView which is still impossible to sort...), but no mortal is ever going to figure out those generics (well, so to speak, I'm not that clever :laugh: ). I'm no newbie looking for approval. In fact I don't think the people who know me question my professionalism or my 'cleverness' (although they do, from time to time, question my sanity) :)
Robert g Blair wrote:
there are other guys on your team who will diss your 'clever' code
Actually they were quite impressed I could concoct such a piece of unreadable, yet compiling, code :laugh: I did already make the code a bit simpler.
Robert g Blair wrote:
As your boss I would tell you: "Sander, when we deliver that software (next week BTW), our client will not pay us one red cent extra for the cleverness of your grid sorting code. Any bugs it generates in the approval period will cost me money."
Actually we're being paid by the hour :laugh: That isn't to say I'm not doing my best or working my fastest. Our clients are programmers too and they will check out my code. I'm professional and practical enough to know when to stop working on a 'clever' solution and look for another solution. This solution here cost me about 15-30 minutes, which is infinitely faster than sorting the DataGridView without a DataView. If only it were actually easy to out-of-the-box sort that DataGridView... :sigh: I still wake up at night, sweating, screaming "InvalidOperationException! The DataSource does not support sorting!" (or something like that)...
Visit my blog
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Sander: Yes, it's 'clever' code. I have many years with Winforms, and the DataGridView. Also with building software for users, using a team of developers. To my mind (based on your necessarily limited description) you are re-coding something that the DataGridView already does. It does it (a) more efficiently than your code, (b) with less potential for support issues (ie, bugs), and (c) in a more user-friendly manner. If you were on my team I would see two problems. They are very common problems, so fairly straightforward to deal with. The first problem is: Why on earth do you need to invoke the sort from a drop-down? Does the client really want to pay $10,000 to be able to sort clunky-fashion, instead of just click the damn header like every other right-thinking user? Go back to the user and enlighten them on what they really want to do here. The second problem is: You (the developer) have decided (as developers often do) to code your way out of a corner. You develop code that must be laboriously explained (although it is excitingly generic). Then you post the code on a geeky forum, looking for approval. I know why you've done that: because you know there are other guys on your team who will diss your 'clever' code. Pro tip: you are writing Winforms apps for end users. You have not yet been called to write cross-platform compilers for GoogIntelSoft. As your boss I would tell you: "Sander, when we deliver that software (next week BTW), our client will not pay us one red cent extra for the cleverness of your grid sorting code. Any bugs it generates in the approval period will cost me money."
What a pleasure to read this kind of thoughtful analysis ! thanks, Bill
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
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kmoorevs wrote:
Just leave decent documentation for the next guy
If I told you you could call it like this, would you know enough? :)
SomeFunction("Name", Queryable.OrderBy, q => q.Name);
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Sander: Yes, it's 'clever' code. I have many years with Winforms, and the DataGridView. Also with building software for users, using a team of developers. To my mind (based on your necessarily limited description) you are re-coding something that the DataGridView already does. It does it (a) more efficiently than your code, (b) with less potential for support issues (ie, bugs), and (c) in a more user-friendly manner. If you were on my team I would see two problems. They are very common problems, so fairly straightforward to deal with. The first problem is: Why on earth do you need to invoke the sort from a drop-down? Does the client really want to pay $10,000 to be able to sort clunky-fashion, instead of just click the damn header like every other right-thinking user? Go back to the user and enlighten them on what they really want to do here. The second problem is: You (the developer) have decided (as developers often do) to code your way out of a corner. You develop code that must be laboriously explained (although it is excitingly generic). Then you post the code on a geeky forum, looking for approval. I know why you've done that: because you know there are other guys on your team who will diss your 'clever' code. Pro tip: you are writing Winforms apps for end users. You have not yet been called to write cross-platform compilers for GoogIntelSoft. As your boss I would tell you: "Sander, when we deliver that software (next week BTW), our client will not pay us one red cent extra for the cleverness of your grid sorting code. Any bugs it generates in the approval period will cost me money."
Robert g Blair wrote:
instead of just click the damn header
How do I have it sort by column 5 then by column 7 descending? Clicking on column headers to sort is bullshit and whoever started it should be shot.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
would you know enough?
I wouldn't. I don't do lambdas. Or Linq.
You don't do C#?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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You don't do C#?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I do
C#; it's kids these days who don't.You do C#, but not LINQ and lambda? How do you work with collections, write out each foreach loop every time?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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You do C#, but not LINQ and lambda? How do you work with collections, write out each foreach loop every time?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Foreach is inefficient, for loops rule.
I think/hope you're missing a joke icon :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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A shame you didn't recognize it. It's an indication that my code is, indeed, 'clever'... Not sure how to make it more readable though (I guess this is the part where it becomes a programming question :laugh: ).
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Have you considered adding a comment? I find that's generally a good idea for clever code (with or without quotes).
It's funny you should say that. While you certainly make a valid point allow me to explain why I don't think that's the solution. If the code is so unclear it needs comments I really think you should stop and have another look at your code. Try rewriting it so that it shouldn't need comments (which is what I did). If there's really nothing else you can do you can use a comment, but I highly discourage it. I've said it before and I'll say it now; comments are the evil of this world :) In fact I've had so much bad experiences with comments that I've written a tip about it a few years ago. If you're interested: Write comments that matter[^]. Thanks for the tip though :thumbsup:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
