Responsive Emails can go take a flying leap
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About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
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About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
RJOberg wrote:
I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession.
Email was never supposed replace a web page. Most of those things done are done for security to A: stop email harvesting and B: to prevent injectable attacks and C: probably just to annoy us. Just use minimal formatting, if they want a web experience, then toss in a link. Or just offer a plain text version. All you need is word wrap.
Jeremy Falcon
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RJOberg wrote:
I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession.
Email was never supposed replace a web page. Most of those things done are done for security to A: stop email harvesting and B: to prevent injectable attacks and C: probably just to annoy us. Just use minimal formatting, if they want a web experience, then toss in a link. Or just offer a plain text version. All you need is word wrap.
Jeremy Falcon
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RJOberg wrote:
I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession.
Email was never supposed replace a web page. Most of those things done are done for security to A: stop email harvesting and B: to prevent injectable attacks and C: probably just to annoy us. Just use minimal formatting, if they want a web experience, then toss in a link. Or just offer a plain text version. All you need is word wrap.
Jeremy Falcon
I wish the minimal formatting was an option. And yes, all of those changes were made for a reason. But this is a newsletter that needs to have images, and pictures, and links, and... well you get the point. Plus it needs to look good in any email client the recipient might use. If the industry would just agree on one freakin standard and nuke Outlook from orbit I'd be much happier. I'd settle for nuking Outlook if agreeing on a standard isn't an option. I wish I could use anything that resembled a best practice, but when your customer has important enough to dictate their requirements you tend to do your best to make that happen. I am making the argument for a single column layout since that would simplify so much. Still leaves the Outlook problem but it gets rid of so many other problems.
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Fair enough. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
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I wish the minimal formatting was an option. And yes, all of those changes were made for a reason. But this is a newsletter that needs to have images, and pictures, and links, and... well you get the point. Plus it needs to look good in any email client the recipient might use. If the industry would just agree on one freakin standard and nuke Outlook from orbit I'd be much happier. I'd settle for nuking Outlook if agreeing on a standard isn't an option. I wish I could use anything that resembled a best practice, but when your customer has important enough to dictate their requirements you tend to do your best to make that happen. I am making the argument for a single column layout since that would simplify so much. Still leaves the Outlook problem but it gets rid of so many other problems.
RJOberg wrote:
If the industry would just agree on one freakin standard and nuke Outlook from orbit I'd be much happier. I'd settle for nuking Outlook if agreeing on a standard isn't an option.
Last I heard JSOP would like to help make Outlook just "disappear" a reality. So far your goal is two strong. In time, who knows.
Jeremy Falcon
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About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
RJOberg wrote:
Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 ...
As of Outlook 2007, it uses Word to render the HTML, so it's actually closer to IE5.5 X| There used to be a site[^] campaigning for Microsoft to fix this, but it seems to be dead now. The Twitter account[^] hasn't posted since 2009.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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RJOberg wrote:
If the industry would just agree on one freakin standard and nuke Outlook from orbit I'd be much happier. I'd settle for nuking Outlook if agreeing on a standard isn't an option.
Last I heard JSOP would like to help make Outlook just "disappear" a reality. So far your goal is two strong. In time, who knows.
Jeremy Falcon
But JSOP has guns...
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
You should introduce them to wonderful technology called plain text emails. They look greater on any client/system/device.
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About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
That's one of the reasons that services like MailChimp prosper.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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But JSOP has guns...
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
You say that like it's a bad thing.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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You say that like it's a bad thing.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
I say that like Outlook can kiss its sorry ass goodbye :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
-
About a week ago, I remember reading JSOP's post about responsive web design being a PITA. I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession. :mad: Gmail strips out any style section or CSS so everything has to be inline. Outlook thinks we are still using IE8 or something equally archaic so doesn't support anything fluid and you have to use old school tables. Apple Mail doesn't support the max-width tag. Yahoo in their infinite wisdom treats media queries as word so you have to put a tag to tell them to ignore it. Apparently modern browsers now ignore conditional html entirely. And of course the user wants a two column layout with a three column footer. And I don't have the ability to say "No, that is just silly." The HTML document looks like some Frankenstein monster. It has a style section plus inline styles, conditional tables that get created if the person is using Outlook. Tables are no longer nested, they are rat's nested and some of the tables only being there some of the time makes it that much harder to keep an eye on what is happening. And all of this being sent from a system that is stripping out some of my HTML or better yet replacing it with what it thinks is better. X|
Haven't you ever wondered why commercial e-mails are nothing but graphics? Format your text, take a snapshot, and stick it in. Job done, for 90% of the content. For the rest, use plain text, as much as possible.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I wish the minimal formatting was an option. And yes, all of those changes were made for a reason. But this is a newsletter that needs to have images, and pictures, and links, and... well you get the point. Plus it needs to look good in any email client the recipient might use. If the industry would just agree on one freakin standard and nuke Outlook from orbit I'd be much happier. I'd settle for nuking Outlook if agreeing on a standard isn't an option. I wish I could use anything that resembled a best practice, but when your customer has important enough to dictate their requirements you tend to do your best to make that happen. I am making the argument for a single column layout since that would simplify so much. Still leaves the Outlook problem but it gets rid of so many other problems.
RJOberg wrote:
But this is a newsletter that needs to have images, and pictures, and links, and... well you get the point
And I am soooooo happy Outlook does block this crapware I am being sent to.
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RJOberg wrote:
I have to add that responsive email design makes me want to change my profession.
Email was never supposed replace a web page. Most of those things done are done for security to A: stop email harvesting and B: to prevent injectable attacks and C: probably just to annoy us. Just use minimal formatting, if they want a web experience, then toss in a link. Or just offer a plain text version. All you need is word wrap.
Jeremy Falcon
I wish I could upvote this 100 times.
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I say that like Outlook can kiss its sorry ass goodbye :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Outlook has been good to me, since around 2007 or so, on the few occasions I've had to use it. But I've never had to code around it.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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Haven't you ever wondered why commercial e-mails are nothing but graphics? Format your text, take a snapshot, and stick it in. Job done, for 90% of the content. For the rest, use plain text, as much as possible.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
:thumbsup:
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RJOberg wrote:
But this is a newsletter that needs to have images, and pictures, and links, and... well you get the point
And I am soooooo happy Outlook does block this crapware I am being sent to.
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I wish I could upvote this 100 times.
Why thank ya.
Jeremy Falcon
