Need some advice
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Traditionally, I've been a Linux/Shell/Bash disliker. I had completely grown up on Windows. The last thing I loved on a black screen was DOS. Though I still use Windows Command prompt, and those techie C# Console tools I write. :) The windows chain of tools & utils has been so productive with drag n drops,click-clucks. Now unfortunately I'd been often forced to look into Linux X| I had suffered enough because of my Linux-ignorance, losing some of our valuable customers. (Yes we should ideally hire a Linux admin, we have that in the To-Do for an year.) Linux environment, I simply couldn't take it. It brings so much fatigue to the brain if I'm continuously traversing like, Okay to do this, do that. To do that, install this. to install this, install that. For that, type this. And finally I realize, what I have is a bare naked system. And every damn thing has to be manually set up. How unproductive this is. It's a total fatigue. May be it's because I've identified myself too much with windows and nothing else. I don't know. Now I'm at a point to give it a try again. I believe I can Sit down and learn all those things that I see on a dry linux Book. I believe I can still do with so much eye sore. The question is, is that any worth? Or the linux world is by any chance moving towards GUI, click-cluck direction. I've seen ubuntu desktops and got some sigh of relief- okay, may be it's time we learn some linux stuff! (with mouse) but what I'm talking about is Server. you think, Linux _SERVER_ . Is this always going to need Shell commands expertise. Will there be something like remote-desktop, Click to deploy etc coming up. If Linux is just going to stay with Shell prompt and commands, and nothing new coming up, then I should give a try again. this never ending story...:sigh:
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy.
Console workflows aren't that bad, as long as the tools offer discoverability. You know, the possibility to learn as you go instead of having to search the web for tutorials. The Linux world sure as hell isn't moving towards GUI-centricism, neither towards compatbility of any sorts. Binary compatibility even in user space is questionable, in kernel space it's a lottery win if it happens. Compatibility of settings is questionable too. Ever patched Apache and found that your setup goes FUBAR because a minor update broke something? That isn't a rare thing to happen, that sucks. IIS at least keeps a clean state between minor updates and still works mostly without any further babysitting after major updates. This won't ever happen on Linux. Console workflows themselves are, as I said, not bad. While I'm not a fan of writing scripts for everyhting, mostly because escaping every. Single. String is a major PITA, I write my C# tools in console form every now and then. Besides, Windows' Powershell is awesome! Linux' bash, while powerful too, lacks loads of things Powershell has. Starting with an actually helpful help system (bash's help is mostly notes from people who already know for themselves, not a way to get started) and it's reliance on strings for everything makes piping, once again, a major PITA. Also, while it's powerfull, it's still suffering from the same illness as Windows' CMD, it has evolved over time and consistency wasn't a high priority during all those years.
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Traditionally, I've been a Linux/Shell/Bash disliker. I had completely grown up on Windows. The last thing I loved on a black screen was DOS. Though I still use Windows Command prompt, and those techie C# Console tools I write. :) The windows chain of tools & utils has been so productive with drag n drops,click-clucks. Now unfortunately I'd been often forced to look into Linux X| I had suffered enough because of my Linux-ignorance, losing some of our valuable customers. (Yes we should ideally hire a Linux admin, we have that in the To-Do for an year.) Linux environment, I simply couldn't take it. It brings so much fatigue to the brain if I'm continuously traversing like, Okay to do this, do that. To do that, install this. to install this, install that. For that, type this. And finally I realize, what I have is a bare naked system. And every damn thing has to be manually set up. How unproductive this is. It's a total fatigue. May be it's because I've identified myself too much with windows and nothing else. I don't know. Now I'm at a point to give it a try again. I believe I can Sit down and learn all those things that I see on a dry linux Book. I believe I can still do with so much eye sore. The question is, is that any worth? Or the linux world is by any chance moving towards GUI, click-cluck direction. I've seen ubuntu desktops and got some sigh of relief- okay, may be it's time we learn some linux stuff! (with mouse) but what I'm talking about is Server. you think, Linux _SERVER_ . Is this always going to need Shell commands expertise. Will there be something like remote-desktop, Click to deploy etc coming up. If Linux is just going to stay with Shell prompt and commands, and nothing new coming up, then I should give a try again. this never ending story...:sigh:
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy.
First, Microsoft open sourced Powershell, and are making bash available in windows. These 2 worlds will collide. I am in the SAME boat as you. Love/hate relationship with Linux (love its stability, hate trying to figure out which command to use, although I just google it). I have a synology raid. unzipping files on the raid, to the raid was way to slow. I used SSH, and did a local unzip. OMG I was convinced. I reduced literally days of network traffic to about an hour of a shell. I downloaded a virtual box VM, and took an online class that walked me through it. It really helped. I am still horribly rusty. But I think it is worth learning. To be honest, you have invested thousands of hours into doing things in windows. You are going to have to invest a few hundred hours into this. And I think it makes you better at things. There are some things I actually prefer doing in linux now. In fact, I started writing Python so I can run my scripts on different OSes easier.
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First, Microsoft open sourced Powershell, and are making bash available in windows. These 2 worlds will collide. I am in the SAME boat as you. Love/hate relationship with Linux (love its stability, hate trying to figure out which command to use, although I just google it). I have a synology raid. unzipping files on the raid, to the raid was way to slow. I used SSH, and did a local unzip. OMG I was convinced. I reduced literally days of network traffic to about an hour of a shell. I downloaded a virtual box VM, and took an online class that walked me through it. It really helped. I am still horribly rusty. But I think it is worth learning. To be honest, you have invested thousands of hours into doing things in windows. You are going to have to invest a few hundred hours into this. And I think it makes you better at things. There are some things I actually prefer doing in linux now. In fact, I started writing Python so I can run my scripts on different OSes easier.
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Traditionally, I've been a Linux/Shell/Bash disliker. I had completely grown up on Windows. The last thing I loved on a black screen was DOS. Though I still use Windows Command prompt, and those techie C# Console tools I write. :) The windows chain of tools & utils has been so productive with drag n drops,click-clucks. Now unfortunately I'd been often forced to look into Linux X| I had suffered enough because of my Linux-ignorance, losing some of our valuable customers. (Yes we should ideally hire a Linux admin, we have that in the To-Do for an year.) Linux environment, I simply couldn't take it. It brings so much fatigue to the brain if I'm continuously traversing like, Okay to do this, do that. To do that, install this. to install this, install that. For that, type this. And finally I realize, what I have is a bare naked system. And every damn thing has to be manually set up. How unproductive this is. It's a total fatigue. May be it's because I've identified myself too much with windows and nothing else. I don't know. Now I'm at a point to give it a try again. I believe I can Sit down and learn all those things that I see on a dry linux Book. I believe I can still do with so much eye sore. The question is, is that any worth? Or the linux world is by any chance moving towards GUI, click-cluck direction. I've seen ubuntu desktops and got some sigh of relief- okay, may be it's time we learn some linux stuff! (with mouse) but what I'm talking about is Server. you think, Linux _SERVER_ . Is this always going to need Shell commands expertise. Will there be something like remote-desktop, Click to deploy etc coming up. If Linux is just going to stay with Shell prompt and commands, and nothing new coming up, then I should give a try again. this never ending story...:sigh:
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy.
I've managed to avoid Linux ... until I installed a home surveillance system and discovered it's powered by Linux. It ties into my Windows home network; has a GUI; sends motion-detected emails; cloud accessible; Ethernet; USB ports; etc. I'm working with Linux ... but not really.
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Vunic wrote:
Is this always going to need Shell commands expertise.
Yes. And editing (in a text editor) whatever obscure configuration "language" your particular choice of server poison is, often several, as typical configurations have multiple pieces "working together."
Vunic wrote:
Will there be something like remote-desktop, Click to deploy etc coming up.
:laugh: My suggestion: Create a VM of a baseline system, get it configured the way you want, and clone it to replicate it elsewhere. I suppose Docker might be useful for that. But: Document every step you take! Every shell command you enter. Every configuration change you make. When you've done it once, start from a clean slate again and try to replicate those steps. When you've successfully replicated the setup, put the steps into a .sh file, start from a clean slate again, and run the .sh file and see if it works. Keep a journal of useful commands, creating a quick reference guide for yourself. Hiring a Linux admin is great, but they tend to be biased, they don't document anything, and the next admin will complain about how stupid the previous admin was. If you hire a Linux admin, make him document, make him test his scripts, make him prove his scripts work. (I don't know any "her" Linux admins, so forgive my bias there.) Think of a Linux admin as a black box that you need to "unit test." :) Linux desktops suck. All of them. You will find yourself using the shell because the desktop UI doesn't provide what you need to do, and is klunkier than the shell, hard to believe! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Yep! The desktops all suck in Linux. Bash is obscure but well worth learning. Almost everything can be scripted but be very careful :wtf: Coming from a "I hate Linux" background I can understand your trepidation. The main issue here is familiarity. Who knows, you might get to like it...
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.