Is there something like Docker but for Windows users?
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
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what's wrong with virtual machines?
Installing Signature... Do not switch off your computer.
Since my laptop is a little constrained in terms of RAM and CPU I was essentially hoping for something similar to a virtual machine or docker but that is based on the System OS running on my laptop, rather than having to run 2 separate OS's if that makes sense.
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Yeah, Docker for Windows is really great and what gave me the idea. I'm just looking for something similar but that is based on my actual System OS instead of a separate docker image, so I'm only running one OS instead of the two normally necessary with Docker. I might be misunderstanding how Docker actually works but usually the docker image you create is based on a different image you download, for example Windows 10, Windows Server, or Windows Nano, etc whereas I want to use the Windows OS already installed on my laptop as the base image if that make sense.
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
Years ago I used Altiris SVS. It was free and Symantec bought it IIRC. I used it for years after they quit making updates to it. A quick search because I couldn't recall the name, led me to this: Cameyo[^]. At the bottom of the page, they have something called Cameyo Offline. That sounds like what you might be looking for. I'm going to play with it and see what it is like.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
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Yeah, Docker for Windows is really great and what gave me the idea. I'm just looking for something similar but that is based on my actual System OS instead of a separate docker image, so I'm only running one OS instead of the two normally necessary with Docker. I might be misunderstanding how Docker actually works but usually the docker image you create is based on a different image you download, for example Windows 10, Windows Server, or Windows Nano, etc whereas I want to use the Windows OS already installed on my laptop as the base image if that make sense.
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
What you just described is a VM using snapshots. Docker uses VMs under the hood, but it's an app container within an isolated environment. The keyword being app here. If you want a root OS type thing going on, you're looking at a VM directly.
pwhe23 wrote:
After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows.
Just to avoid confusion... Docker For Windows[^]. However, it's for contained apps on Windows and not the root OS itself.
Jeremy Falcon
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Since my laptop is a little constrained in terms of RAM and CPU I was essentially hoping for something similar to a virtual machine or docker but that is based on the System OS running on my laptop, rather than having to run 2 separate OS's if that makes sense.
Get a new machine, if it's so old a VM will take it down it's time to upgrade your dev box. Seriously, virtualization is supported right down to CPUs now. And testing the latest and greatest software will all but force that anyway. I'd never use a VM for game development or anything graphic intensive, ever. But for most other things they work pretty well. Also, it's been my experience that VMWare runs faster than VirtualBox. I don't have much experience with Hyper-V since the two aforementioned tend to handle my needs.
Jeremy Falcon
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Years ago I used Altiris SVS. It was free and Symantec bought it IIRC. I used it for years after they quit making updates to it. A quick search because I couldn't recall the name, led me to this: Cameyo[^]. At the bottom of the page, they have something called Cameyo Offline. That sounds like what you might be looking for. I'm going to play with it and see what it is like.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
Wow, you nailed it. Symantec Workspace Virtualization is exactly what I was looking for (too bad it's discontinued lol) Symantec Workspace Virtualization - Wikipedia[^]
Quote:
Originally pioneered by Altiris and based on technology acquired from FSLogic and named Software Virtualization Solution, SWV allows applications and data to be put into virtual layers (application layers and data layers) instead of being installed to the base file system and Registry. This is achieved through the use of a filter driver and layering technology Altiris acquired from FSLogic. By placing applications and data into managed layers called Virtual Software Packages (VSP's), SWV allows on-the-fly activation, deactivation, or reseting of applications, to avoid conflicts between applications, and to remove them cleanly without altering the base Windows installation.
I'll have to check out Cameyo!
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what's wrong with virtual machines?
Installing Signature... Do not switch off your computer.
Sounds like he just needs a new computer that's not 10 years old.
Jeremy Falcon
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pwhe23 wrote:
... I want to use the Windows OS already installed on my laptop as the base image
I'm curious to know the use case that makes that an important requirement.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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What you just described is a VM using snapshots. Docker uses VMs under the hood, but it's an app container within an isolated environment. The keyword being app here. If you want a root OS type thing going on, you're looking at a VM directly.
pwhe23 wrote:
After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows.
Just to avoid confusion... Docker For Windows[^]. However, it's for contained apps on Windows and not the root OS itself.
Jeremy Falcon
Apparently it is possible to containerise at the OS level (linux anyway - LXC's). Depends how you use your machine, for me my base (w7) machine is tuned for dev (i.e. many services turned off/manaul) so using docker at OS level wouldn't be a valid testing setup (even if I turned things back on in the container); for devs targeting individual desktops or/and servers it'll remain better to use a "clean/standard setup" VMs ("un-tuned" or tuned-like-the-customers-machines apart from perhaps a few other installed programs such as vs (or some debugger), and say ff and np++..)
Installing Signature... Do not switch off your computer.
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
Look at [Turbo Containers - Run Applications Anywhere](https://turbo.net/) (Previously known as Spoon) And stay away from Docker for Windows. I'm using Docker Toolbox with .NET Core 2 and quite happy with the process. I wrote about my Docker for Windows experience [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/my-docker-for-windows-experience/) and [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/uninstalling-docker-for-windows/). Marc
Latest Article - Class-less Coding - Minimalist C# and Why F# and Function Programming Has Some Advantages Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Look at [Turbo Containers - Run Applications Anywhere](https://turbo.net/) (Previously known as Spoon) And stay away from Docker for Windows. I'm using Docker Toolbox with .NET Core 2 and quite happy with the process. I wrote about my Docker for Windows experience [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/my-docker-for-windows-experience/) and [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/uninstalling-docker-for-windows/). Marc
Latest Article - Class-less Coding - Minimalist C# and Why F# and Function Programming Has Some Advantages Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
stay away from Docker for Windows
I echo that sentiment.
This space for rent
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
Its isn't a turnkey solution, but what you describe is essentially what Microsoft's Desktop App Converter[^] does -- it virtualizes the file system, registry, etc. for the desktop app that's being converted, and creates an installable windows UWP package. It probably won't keep that installed app from mucking with the main file system and registry once the installation is running on your machine, but at least all the registry keys and files related to the app itself are in a container. I keep waiting for MS to deliver the community version of Visual Studio that way, so I don't have to permanently suffer the 750,000 registry entries it creates during installation on my personal machine, just to have it around for the odd time I want to use it. Or.. would a sandbox product work? Something like SandboxIE maybe?
I live in Oregon, and I'm an engineer.
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I'm not sure I have a great use-case other than crappy laptops, just curious after playing with Docker and the idea of layering. Figured ya'll might know something I don't ;)
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Apparently it is possible to containerise at the OS level (linux anyway - LXC's). Depends how you use your machine, for me my base (w7) machine is tuned for dev (i.e. many services turned off/manaul) so using docker at OS level wouldn't be a valid testing setup (even if I turned things back on in the container); for devs targeting individual desktops or/and servers it'll remain better to use a "clean/standard setup" VMs ("un-tuned" or tuned-like-the-customers-machines apart from perhaps a few other installed programs such as vs (or some debugger), and say ff and np++..)
Installing Signature... Do not switch off your computer.
Lopatir wrote:
Apparently it is possible to containerise at the OS level (linux anyway - LXC's).
My understanding of it, the way Docker works on Linux doesn't use a VM. The OS provides the functionality to contain processes, which is what is being linked to. And so Docker takes advantage of that. On Windows I didn't think there was a way to do that without a VM. But, I'm a total Docker n00b, so who knows.
Lopatir wrote:
Depends how you use your machine, for me my base (w7) machine is tuned for dev (i.e. many services turned off/manaul) so using docker at OS level wouldn't be a valid testing setup
So when you mean at the OS level, are you not using Hypver-V or any VM at all, or is it going through Hyper-V still but you're just turning off/on Windows features, etc.?
Lopatir wrote:
Installing Signature...
:omg:
Jeremy Falcon
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Look at [Turbo Containers - Run Applications Anywhere](https://turbo.net/) (Previously known as Spoon) And stay away from Docker for Windows. I'm using Docker Toolbox with .NET Core 2 and quite happy with the process. I wrote about my Docker for Windows experience [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/my-docker-for-windows-experience/) and [here](https://marcclifton.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/uninstalling-docker-for-windows/). Marc
Latest Article - Class-less Coding - Minimalist C# and Why F# and Function Programming Has Some Advantages Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Just read the first part of the first link, and I believe you just confirmed what I think. Docker for Windows requires Hyper-V correct?
Jeremy Falcon
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Marc Clifton wrote:
stay away from Docker for Windows
I echo that sentiment.
This space for rent
Too bad Docker is now another buzzword in the industry though. :sigh:
Jeremy Falcon