Imagine a world with a "bare OS"
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Googles recent thing with Android Apps running on Chrome O/S, also the lack of any new Tablets on the market. Makes me think the Android Tablet is coming to an end... :rolleyes:
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
ChromeOS not rally goes with a separation-of-concerns ides... It simply contains the new Android Runtime (that replaces Java and Dalvik)... And even so there are lot of problems of how hardware (missing hardware it is) should be handled... Even you were able to manage to create an auto-loader, that automatically identifies the requested platform and loads the application inside a container with that platform, you still have the problem of the in-platform dependency... What I'm saying, is that is nice dream, but while wrapping the OS is possible, it is far from being enough...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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Googles recent thing with Android Apps running on Chrome O/S, also the lack of any new Tablets on the market. Makes me think the Android Tablet is coming to an end... :rolleyes:
I like that. DOS was that way. And we had a lot of fun with it.
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I like that. DOS was that way. And we had a lot of fun with it.
The days of wine and roses! The computer was mine right down to its very soul. (+)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Damn - I Just thought you miss-spelled that and meant "bare A . . ." Never mind. I'm disappointed enough as it is.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Damn - I Just thought you miss-spelled that and meant "bare A . . ." Never mind. I'm disappointed enough as it is.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Damn - I Just thought you miss-spelled that and meant "bare A . . ." Never mind. I'm disappointed enough as it is.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You mean Butte, Montana?
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I like that. DOS was that way. And we had a lot of fun with it.
And manuals of paper that had That smell...
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Good Kool-Aid is it?
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With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future! To look at this with abstract glasses, this means: They seperated the "OS" layer from the "application" layer. The OS itself does nothing more than make the hardware work, but the apps you start, all run in their shells/vms/whatever, making the OS independant of the target platform of the running app. If they make this step to the end, we could have Clash of clans running on the right monitor, while we ctrl-C/ctrl-V from google sheets to microsoft excel on the left monitor. In Background the linux version of Android Studio is running and waiting for my attention. What do you think of such a step... Make an independant OS, that "runs everything"? For me, personally, if the vulcan runtime is fully supported, and as soon as steam and battle.net work on ChromeOS, windows is history for me... I don't mind much, whether I run the windows or the linux version of Android Studio, but "running" my App on ChromeOS "natively", as if I would press F5 in Visual Studio to start my windows app... sounds sweeeeeeeeet :-) Share your thoughts! Cheers Mike
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Mike Barthold wrote:
With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future!
Does ChromeOS run Android apps any better than Android itself can on an Android device? Over the years I've owned 5 Android tablets, ranging from 2.x to 6.x, and I've always kept them all relatively clean (I'm rather selective about what I download from Google Play). Despite this, the experience is always the same (across all devices) and ends up with apps that freeze for minutes at a time, randomly shut down with no warning, or (somehow) manage to reboot the whole device. Android to me feels like it's Windows 3.1 all over again, in terms of stability. Add to that the fact that only *one* of my 5 tablets has ever had an OS update (4.3 to 4.4) - the devices become abandonware so quickly it's ridiculous, and until the situation changes, I just refuse to spend more money on anything running that platform. With Windows pretty much out of the picture, what's an Apple hater to do?
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Mike Barthold wrote:
With bare-OS I mean the step, that Google is currently doing with ChromeOS. You know, ChromeOS is capable of running Android Apps directly on the desktop, the current version even allows launching of Linux applications and the latest check-ins show signs of a cooperation, that ChromeOS might be capable of running native Windows-Applications in the future!
Does ChromeOS run Android apps any better than Android itself can on an Android device? Over the years I've owned 5 Android tablets, ranging from 2.x to 6.x, and I've always kept them all relatively clean (I'm rather selective about what I download from Google Play). Despite this, the experience is always the same (across all devices) and ends up with apps that freeze for minutes at a time, randomly shut down with no warning, or (somehow) manage to reboot the whole device. Android to me feels like it's Windows 3.1 all over again, in terms of stability. Add to that the fact that only *one* of my 5 tablets has ever had an OS update (4.3 to 4.4) - the devices become abandonware so quickly it's ridiculous, and until the situation changes, I just refuse to spend more money on anything running that platform. With Windows pretty much out of the picture, what's an Apple hater to do?
Well, actually on ChromeOS they only "look like an android app" so much... You have everything, from resizeable windows, multiple apps open side-by-side... Ctrl-C Ctrl-V like in normal windows... even from a browser tab into an android app and vice-versa. not to mention a desktop-sized screen, physical keyboard, mouse/touchpad (or a touchscreen // depends on your chromebook model). AND you can get 3 or 4 chromebooks to the price of one single windows-notebook. No backup problems, all is in the cloud... hard to stop naming the benefits... they are too many. Oh, and zero setup/installation! New Chromebook, start it up, log in with your google account and go! Your bookmarks, settings, addons, extensions, apps... everything gets replicated. Yes, if you ask me that way, chrome OS launches android apps better than android itself. And you don't have the "abandonware" problem, as the runtime is updated from google - say, currently my chromebook runs 8.1 and if I want, I can run Android P on my chromebook. So yes, ChromeOS will have even more of a big future than it already has. Even when Fuchsia gets added to the mix.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
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Well, actually on ChromeOS they only "look like an android app" so much... You have everything, from resizeable windows, multiple apps open side-by-side... Ctrl-C Ctrl-V like in normal windows... even from a browser tab into an android app and vice-versa. not to mention a desktop-sized screen, physical keyboard, mouse/touchpad (or a touchscreen // depends on your chromebook model). AND you can get 3 or 4 chromebooks to the price of one single windows-notebook. No backup problems, all is in the cloud... hard to stop naming the benefits... they are too many. Oh, and zero setup/installation! New Chromebook, start it up, log in with your google account and go! Your bookmarks, settings, addons, extensions, apps... everything gets replicated. Yes, if you ask me that way, chrome OS launches android apps better than android itself. And you don't have the "abandonware" problem, as the runtime is updated from google - say, currently my chromebook runs 8.1 and if I want, I can run Android P on my chromebook. So yes, ChromeOS will have even more of a big future than it already has. Even when Fuchsia gets added to the mix.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
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I don't need to be sold on the *idea* behind ChromeOS. I need to be convinced ChromeOS isn't as flakey as Android. Like one bad app taking down the whole OS randomly.
I don't know whether I can convince you there :-) For my personal taste, I like it more to work with ChromeOS than I do with windows, but that depends on the tasks I am up to. Gaming, of course, is still a thing for windows (big games like WoW and Steam stuff). But when I am only up to some casual Android gaming, ... yes I'd rather boot up the chromebook than to grab my phone/tablet. I never experienced anything of what you wrote here - but my hardware is always quite up-to-date (have only A8 devices that are not older than 12-15 months and I change them every 1-2 years - so I never had that abandonware effect too). Some of the older devices I keep for development to support old hardware too (at least smoke test on those devices but honestly, they are not in my focus. If the app runs, ok, if not, even more ok). Even in the company we stopped supporting anything below API 21 (= Android 5.0) and very likely we will climb up to a minimum version of 6 for Android by the end of the year. 95% of our customers have 6+ anyways. even android 6 is on a very low percentage meanwhile, so by end of 2019 it will be likely that we set up minimum android 7 for our apps. We are going more the apple way with the OS version, means... The most recent version plus a maximum of two versions back is supported. not more. Even Samsung announced a stock android device, finally they stop their silly stupid f**** android customizations with crappy launchers and forced bloatware. Nokia made everything right so far, and I really hope, many will follow, so we can look at an android market that is more streamlined with lesser excessive customizations where we app developers find ourselves in the coders hell. And this is what chromeOS does, too. You are online with your google account on a stock device. perfect setup.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
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I don't know whether I can convince you there :-) For my personal taste, I like it more to work with ChromeOS than I do with windows, but that depends on the tasks I am up to. Gaming, of course, is still a thing for windows (big games like WoW and Steam stuff). But when I am only up to some casual Android gaming, ... yes I'd rather boot up the chromebook than to grab my phone/tablet. I never experienced anything of what you wrote here - but my hardware is always quite up-to-date (have only A8 devices that are not older than 12-15 months and I change them every 1-2 years - so I never had that abandonware effect too). Some of the older devices I keep for development to support old hardware too (at least smoke test on those devices but honestly, they are not in my focus. If the app runs, ok, if not, even more ok). Even in the company we stopped supporting anything below API 21 (= Android 5.0) and very likely we will climb up to a minimum version of 6 for Android by the end of the year. 95% of our customers have 6+ anyways. even android 6 is on a very low percentage meanwhile, so by end of 2019 it will be likely that we set up minimum android 7 for our apps. We are going more the apple way with the OS version, means... The most recent version plus a maximum of two versions back is supported. not more. Even Samsung announced a stock android device, finally they stop their silly stupid f**** android customizations with crappy launchers and forced bloatware. Nokia made everything right so far, and I really hope, many will follow, so we can look at an android market that is more streamlined with lesser excessive customizations where we app developers find ourselves in the coders hell. And this is what chromeOS does, too. You are online with your google account on a stock device. perfect setup.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Mike Barthold wrote:
my hardware is always quite up-to-date (have only A8 devices that are not older than 12-15 months and I change them every 1-2 years - so I never had that abandonware effect too).
Let me repeat (and perhaps clarify) my stance on abandonware: Buying an Android tablet, for me, has always left me feeling like it was already abandonware the moment I purchased the device, just like the old saying that driving a brand new car off the dealer's parking lot automatically makes it drop $1000 in value. The sale is done, they don't want to see you back. The last one I bought ran 6.0, when 6.x was still pretty new. It's never got any OS update (apps--sure, it seems every time I turn it on, it's got to catch up with dozens of updated apps). Which means that OS-level vulnerabilities still exist. I wouldn't ever do anything important on an Android device for that reason or even link it to important information (like a Google account - which ironically means that ChromeOS, to me, would become a liability rather than an asset as ChromeOS is intrinsically linked to it). I have tablets from Dell, two from Acer, and the other two are so old I don't even remember. They're sitting in a pile somewhere. After owning 5 such tablets, I certainly don't have the...lets call it..."enthusiasm?"...for Android that some of its more rabid fans have. I'm done spending a few hundred bucks every year or two, and moreso if that's what manufacturers expect me to do. As an end user, I'm not sure how Android 8.x is any different than 6.x or 4.x, but I can't justify the money - and I'm a gadget guy. But, I'm a gadget guy who's stopped drinking the Kool-Aid. If the reason to upgrade is simply "this is what app developers are now targeting", I, as a user, don't see any incentive in that justification. All I see is less and less apps that work on my devices. Honestly, what functionality is in those apps that couldn't have been implemented with an earlier version?
Mike Barthold wrote:
95% of our customers have 6+ anyways.
Self-selection? It only makes sense you don't have any 4.x users if you don't support it. The graph [here](https://www.statista.com/statistics/271774/share-of-android-platforms-on-mobile-devices-with-android-os/), which covers 2013 to 2018, shows that, for the longest time, and only until recently, 4.x represented the largest portion of the market by a fair ma
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Mike Barthold wrote:
my hardware is always quite up-to-date (have only A8 devices that are not older than 12-15 months and I change them every 1-2 years - so I never had that abandonware effect too).
Let me repeat (and perhaps clarify) my stance on abandonware: Buying an Android tablet, for me, has always left me feeling like it was already abandonware the moment I purchased the device, just like the old saying that driving a brand new car off the dealer's parking lot automatically makes it drop $1000 in value. The sale is done, they don't want to see you back. The last one I bought ran 6.0, when 6.x was still pretty new. It's never got any OS update (apps--sure, it seems every time I turn it on, it's got to catch up with dozens of updated apps). Which means that OS-level vulnerabilities still exist. I wouldn't ever do anything important on an Android device for that reason or even link it to important information (like a Google account - which ironically means that ChromeOS, to me, would become a liability rather than an asset as ChromeOS is intrinsically linked to it). I have tablets from Dell, two from Acer, and the other two are so old I don't even remember. They're sitting in a pile somewhere. After owning 5 such tablets, I certainly don't have the...lets call it..."enthusiasm?"...for Android that some of its more rabid fans have. I'm done spending a few hundred bucks every year or two, and moreso if that's what manufacturers expect me to do. As an end user, I'm not sure how Android 8.x is any different than 6.x or 4.x, but I can't justify the money - and I'm a gadget guy. But, I'm a gadget guy who's stopped drinking the Kool-Aid. If the reason to upgrade is simply "this is what app developers are now targeting", I, as a user, don't see any incentive in that justification. All I see is less and less apps that work on my devices. Honestly, what functionality is in those apps that couldn't have been implemented with an earlier version?
Mike Barthold wrote:
95% of our customers have 6+ anyways.
Self-selection? It only makes sense you don't have any 4.x users if you don't support it. The graph [here](https://www.statista.com/statistics/271774/share-of-android-platforms-on-mobile-devices-with-android-os/), which covers 2013 to 2018, shows that, for the longest time, and only until recently, 4.x represented the largest portion of the market by a fair ma
I know the spread of the android versions. Our company's app is a business app (paid monthly) and it's a mainly managers who use them. those ppl normally have highend phones and it's very natural that they have "always the latest model". Our customer base is not representative to the normal worldwide spread of phones/models. But anyway, it seems we are totally different kind of users, as you say you don't want to link to a google account... I **live** in the cloud, I have no local data anymore, not even source codes (except while writing them of course, but they are all saved in cloud repositorys - not github) Basically it comes down to: do you trust your cloud provider or not? But every time when I see friends having trouble with another defect hard drive and tears about lost holiday photos and all that stuff... manman... it could be so simple.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
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I know the spread of the android versions. Our company's app is a business app (paid monthly) and it's a mainly managers who use them. those ppl normally have highend phones and it's very natural that they have "always the latest model". Our customer base is not representative to the normal worldwide spread of phones/models. But anyway, it seems we are totally different kind of users, as you say you don't want to link to a google account... I **live** in the cloud, I have no local data anymore, not even source codes (except while writing them of course, but they are all saved in cloud repositorys - not github) Basically it comes down to: do you trust your cloud provider or not? But every time when I see friends having trouble with another defect hard drive and tears about lost holiday photos and all that stuff... manman... it could be so simple.
|| You know nothing, Jon Snow. || My Android Label (mbar Software) on G+ || My Android Apps in Play Store
Mike Barthold wrote:
But anyway, it seems we are totally different kind of users, as you say you don't want to link to a google account... I **live** in the cloud
From my perspective, the risk is that Google ties together way too much information already without linking it also with *important* stuff. What's at risk when my CP account is compromised? Not much. What's the risk when the same happens to my Google account? That's another story altogether.
Mike Barthold wrote:
But every time when I see friends having trouble with another defect hard drive and tears about lost holiday photos and all that stuff... manman... it could be so simple
Meh. It's called backups, and solid methods have existed long before the cloud. I have terabytes of data, and a slow WAN connection. "Everything in the cloud" is just impractical for me.
