The US/China standoff -- opinions from the rest of the world?
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Why don't we talk something real.. like using .NET on Chineese Windows.. or.. how to stop software piracy in China.
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"US "MUST" apologize. US "MUST" promise not to send its spy planes to any country. US "MUST" pay for the damages caused by its plane. US aircraft crew "MUST" be punished according to chinese rules." yes yes yes I agree -- and I'm proud to say I'm an American, although not proud that Dubya is in power... you have to realize that Dubya and his daddy's boys on the Supreme Court essentially took the American People's democratic freedoms away from them last December.. so try not to be too hard on the average American -- even if he/she voted for Dubya it was our Supreme Court who propped him up into power. Brian Hart
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when the election, its really terrible the way that danged constitution keeps getting in the way of the ambitions of the Democratic party. Go Bush!
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about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe. On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours. Can somebody please explain to me why we still care what their political opinions are? Or what they think of our foreign policies? Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all. Thank God the U.S. is finally running the show! Set back and take notes, my English friends, let President Bush show you how its done. Stan Shannon, American.
Two reasons , firstly the person who started this thread asked for foriegn opinion. Secondly ,you should still care about the political opinions of the rest of the world because America is only one part of a much much bigger whole .If you see the world as America plus some foriegners then you are not seeing the world at all. If you beleive that because of your undoubted economic and military supremecy that no one else matters , because you can bully them into place , then you have a lot of growing up to do. You obviously have trouble remembering history , I suggest you go away and look up the following phrases:- "Splendid Isolation" and "Eastern Front". In regards "English Friends" , If it was directed to me , you will be interested to know I am British , and Welsh , not English. If you need any help in overcoming your Geographical as well as Historical ,Political and Economic ignorance , then I will only be too pleased to help. Regards Andrerw Torrance
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about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe. On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours. Can somebody please explain to me why we still care what their political opinions are? Or what they think of our foreign policies? Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all. Thank God the U.S. is finally running the show! Set back and take notes, my English friends, let President Bush show you how its done. Stan Shannon, American.
"about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe." Now THIS is the sort of thing that inflames anti-American opinion. "On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours." Ermm, I presume you've heard or the Korean War - it wasn't just America fighting that (UK lost almost 25,000 troops) as well as Australians and other NATO countries. Also, what about Korea, Vietnam, etc, etc. Haven't done too well their have you? :mad: Why should the whole world suffer "global warming", just because America doesn't want to cut down on emissions? Bush complains about 3rd world countries not having to cut emissions, but the USA is the world's largest producer of CO2 per person - more than even 3rd world countries. "Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all." Maybe - that's not to say we're not grateful for what you've done. But on the other hand, in the American war of independence, a British soldier had George Washington in his sights. Because his back was turned, and because tradition was you wouldn't shoot an enemy in the back, he didn't fire. If he had shot him, the chances are you'd still be British or at least a colony. It's also things like "The Patriot" and "U571" that cause resentment, particularly in the UK. Hollywood completely fabricating stories and alleging that it was USN and not the British who retrieved the first enigma encoding device. Cheers, Peter Pearson
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"about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe." Now THIS is the sort of thing that inflames anti-American opinion. "On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours." Ermm, I presume you've heard or the Korean War - it wasn't just America fighting that (UK lost almost 25,000 troops) as well as Australians and other NATO countries. Also, what about Korea, Vietnam, etc, etc. Haven't done too well their have you? :mad: Why should the whole world suffer "global warming", just because America doesn't want to cut down on emissions? Bush complains about 3rd world countries not having to cut emissions, but the USA is the world's largest producer of CO2 per person - more than even 3rd world countries. "Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all." Maybe - that's not to say we're not grateful for what you've done. But on the other hand, in the American war of independence, a British soldier had George Washington in his sights. Because his back was turned, and because tradition was you wouldn't shoot an enemy in the back, he didn't fire. If he had shot him, the chances are you'd still be British or at least a colony. It's also things like "The Patriot" and "U571" that cause resentment, particularly in the UK. Hollywood completely fabricating stories and alleging that it was USN and not the British who retrieved the first enigma encoding device. Cheers, Peter Pearson
"It's also things like "The Patriot" and "U571" that cause resentment, particularly in the UK. Hollywood completely fabricating stories and alleging that it was USN and not the British who retrieved the first enigma encoding device. " I agree about Hollywood, but for me Hollywood is just entertainment and not for historical fact. Actually, the movie "U571" never said that the US was the first to retrieve the enigma. At the end of the movie, the credits mentioned the British was the first and also listed the other crews successful at retrieving the enigma. :)
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"It's also things like "The Patriot" and "U571" that cause resentment, particularly in the UK. Hollywood completely fabricating stories and alleging that it was USN and not the British who retrieved the first enigma encoding device. " I agree about Hollywood, but for me Hollywood is just entertainment and not for historical fact. Actually, the movie "U571" never said that the US was the first to retrieve the enigma. At the end of the movie, the credits mentioned the British was the first and also listed the other crews successful at retrieving the enigma. :)
I agree it's entertainment, but when facts are half used and half changed, it gets silly. Fair point about U571 - I can't actually remember, but I know I was a bit annoyed at the time. As were, I think it is fair to say, quite a few people in this country. Regards, Peter Pearson
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about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe. On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours. Can somebody please explain to me why we still care what their political opinions are? Or what they think of our foreign policies? Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all. Thank God the U.S. is finally running the show! Set back and take notes, my English friends, let President Bush show you how its done. Stan Shannon, American.
Just couldn't restain myself. But you are correct, your opinions were invited. Sorry. (BTW, I don't know much about that submarine movie, but Patriot was pretty much accurate. The American South during the revolution was about as violent a place as you could imagine - from all sides.) Stan Shannon, American (of the Scots-Irish, Southern red-neck variety.)
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The Chinese "government" needs to take account of Chinese public opinion, and believe me, it's very anti-American (and that's without the government stirring things up - although they have in the past). I believe that's why they are taking such an unusual line. Ever since the stupid bombing of the Chinese embassy, the Chinese public have on the whole been anti-American (although it was the government that made them this way initially). Cheers, Peter
I think George W Bush Jr is onto drugs again. First, deciding to sell arms to Taiwan and making China angry, then environment problem, and biggest defaulter on payments to UN. And not to forget, making angry the whole world over missile defence shield. IMHO, he thinks he is king of the world and he can do anything he wants. That chinese Embassy bombing was no accident. With the state-of-the-art technology that they have, Americans expect us to believe that they made a mistake. Bull shit! China should return the crew but keep the plane. Ammar
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I think George W Bush Jr is onto drugs again. First, deciding to sell arms to Taiwan and making China angry, then environment problem, and biggest defaulter on payments to UN. And not to forget, making angry the whole world over missile defence shield. IMHO, he thinks he is king of the world and he can do anything he wants. That chinese Embassy bombing was no accident. With the state-of-the-art technology that they have, Americans expect us to believe that they made a mistake. Bull shit! China should return the crew but keep the plane. Ammar
"That chinese Embassy bombing was no accident" I'm agreed with that. There was no NATO mission for bombing the chinese embassy or the building that the US claimed they thought the building was. That meant it was a US only mission. That meant it would have had to be approved from the top. The B2 that dropped the JDAMs was escorted by 2 E-6s, and 2 F-16s. Why would a stealth bomber need jamming support and SEAD suppression aircraft and fighter escort? There were also rumors that China gave Belgrade an anti-stealth device which would allow them to get periodic positions of aircraft otherwise not visible to radar. Perhaps this is what happened with the F-117, and the US got nervous and told China to back off - the JDAMs were also targeted on the DA's office - bombing the anti-stealth equipment perhaps? Cheers, Peter Pearson
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I'm an American who has spent a great deal of time overseas for work...at the moment, however, I'm in the US and was curious how people outside the US view the brewing storm over the American "spy" plane which is currently in China. I spoke to a friend last night who is a atmospheric scientist, and his data collection aircraft is basically the same airplane as the one which is now in China. He says that the plane is old, slow, and big....that he would be very surprised if it could hit a fighter unless the fighter pilot was asleep. Should the US aplogize? Should the US cut off trade relations? Should the crew be held in China? Should the plane be returned to the US?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking\_point/newsid\_1260000/1260252.stm That's what lots of people think. A surprising number seem to think they should be treated as spies. Not that FBI agent was caught, and he could be sentenced to death for spying on the US. I'm not saying I support this opinion in any way, but being cynical - Why should China not treat them as spies? I mean no offence by this, but as far as I'm concerned, they were spies, even if they were technically in International Airspace. Regards, Peter Pearson
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I think George W Bush Jr is onto drugs again. First, deciding to sell arms to Taiwan and making China angry, then environment problem, and biggest defaulter on payments to UN. And not to forget, making angry the whole world over missile defence shield. IMHO, he thinks he is king of the world and he can do anything he wants. That chinese Embassy bombing was no accident. With the state-of-the-art technology that they have, Americans expect us to believe that they made a mistake. Bull shit! China should return the crew but keep the plane. Ammar
I'm glad to see someone thinks we are infallible... ;) Minor point, no need to flame... but the Chinese embassy bombing WAS a mistake. The intel that the US forces received was that the building was an enemy facility, they didn't double check their data (or even look at a map). It was a tragic mistake that we are still paying for. -John
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking\_point/newsid\_1260000/1260252.stm That's what lots of people think. A surprising number seem to think they should be treated as spies. Not that FBI agent was caught, and he could be sentenced to death for spying on the US. I'm not saying I support this opinion in any way, but being cynical - Why should China not treat them as spies? I mean no offence by this, but as far as I'm concerned, they were spies, even if they were technically in International Airspace. Regards, Peter Pearson
Lets take a slightly different look at this: Imagine that the US plane had been damaged so badly that it had crashed....that would be 24 dead Americans in addition to the Chinese pilot. As for damage, and the calls for compensation....is that bi-directional?? Is China willing to pay for the damage to the US plane?? Is England "asking for it" when they don't agree to demands by the IRA?? When I was in England many people were offending by my IRA shirt (Intercollegiate Rowing Association). Several tried to pick a fight with me over it!! If the US damands that China stop all its recon/intel missions, wouldn't we expect that China would tell the US that it is a soverign nation and is free to do as it wishes?? They have do so on other issues such as human rights in the past....why should they expect nations to do what they want?? I had a german friend in town a couple weeks ago and we discussed China.....his worry was that China was going to start a new cold war due to George W's policies. My position was that if China wants to do so, its because they want to....I know of no one in the US that up to 3 days ago had any ill will towards China....now thanks to this whole mess, I suspect that people wil turn against China and the US may begin trade sanctions.....is it worth it??? Wouldn't it simply be wiser to say "Here are your people.....the plane stays here -- finders keepers" and move on?? So long as China holds the US crew, I see no good outcome.
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Just couldn't restain myself. But you are correct, your opinions were invited. Sorry. (BTW, I don't know much about that submarine movie, but Patriot was pretty much accurate. The American South during the revolution was about as violent a place as you could imagine - from all sides.) Stan Shannon, American (of the Scots-Irish, Southern red-neck variety.)
the only accurate things in the movie "the patriot" were the costuming, the war-reenactors in the background, and the "broad swath" of events (indian wars, debates, &c) the rest of the movie was mindless, over-produced, mel gibson tripe... if you try to make a period piece, you don't have women standing up in church questioning their father's and brother's manhood, you don't have more-evil-than-evil villians (ruined the whole point of the movie, that brit being so nasty), and you certainly don't have some stupid ewok-inspired interlude to show how sensitive to the slavery issue the producers were where the family goes to hide out with their slaves (or sharecroppers or whatever they were)... i think mel's movies are good about 1 in 3, payback, conspiracy theory, braveheart, 2/3 of mad max were all good, but the rest is pretty much mediocre -John
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I'm glad to see someone thinks we are infallible... ;) Minor point, no need to flame... but the Chinese embassy bombing WAS a mistake. The intel that the US forces received was that the building was an enemy facility, they didn't double check their data (or even look at a map). It was a tragic mistake that we are still paying for. -John
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Lets take a slightly different look at this: Imagine that the US plane had been damaged so badly that it had crashed....that would be 24 dead Americans in addition to the Chinese pilot. As for damage, and the calls for compensation....is that bi-directional?? Is China willing to pay for the damage to the US plane?? Is England "asking for it" when they don't agree to demands by the IRA?? When I was in England many people were offending by my IRA shirt (Intercollegiate Rowing Association). Several tried to pick a fight with me over it!! If the US damands that China stop all its recon/intel missions, wouldn't we expect that China would tell the US that it is a soverign nation and is free to do as it wishes?? They have do so on other issues such as human rights in the past....why should they expect nations to do what they want?? I had a german friend in town a couple weeks ago and we discussed China.....his worry was that China was going to start a new cold war due to George W's policies. My position was that if China wants to do so, its because they want to....I know of no one in the US that up to 3 days ago had any ill will towards China....now thanks to this whole mess, I suspect that people wil turn against China and the US may begin trade sanctions.....is it worth it??? Wouldn't it simply be wiser to say "Here are your people.....the plane stays here -- finders keepers" and move on?? So long as China holds the US crew, I see no good outcome.
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US "MUST" apologize. US "MUST" promise not to send its spy planes to any country. US "MUST" pay for the damages caused by its plane. US aircraft crew "MUST" be punished according to chinese rules.
Why must the Americans constantly stick their nose in other countries affairs? I would think that the Americans should've learned from the Vietnam war that they seem to mis-read and under-estimate China. (Americans thought that the Chinese we're heavily involved but it was more the Russians) Taiwan and China is an internal affair, Americans getting involved will only cause more tension.
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US "MUST" apologize. US "MUST" promise not to send its spy planes to any country. US "MUST" pay for the damages caused by its plane. US aircraft crew "MUST" be punished according to chinese rules.
Why must the Americans constantly stick their nose in other countries affairs? I would think that the Americans should've learned from the Vietnam war that they seem to mis-read and under-estimate China. (Americans thought that the Chinese we're heavily involved but it was more the Russians) Taiwan and China is an internal affair, Americans getting involved will only cause more tension.
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about a million Americans have died as a direct consequence of the asinine political incompetence of the countries of Europe. On the other hand, none of them have died as a consequence of ours. Can somebody please explain to me why we still care what their political opinions are? Or what they think of our foreign policies? Heck, without us, they would all be sending their opinions in German, if they were allowed to send them at all. Thank God the U.S. is finally running the show! Set back and take notes, my English friends, let President Bush show you how its done. Stan Shannon, American.
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I'm an American who has spent a great deal of time overseas for work...at the moment, however, I'm in the US and was curious how people outside the US view the brewing storm over the American "spy" plane which is currently in China. I spoke to a friend last night who is a atmospheric scientist, and his data collection aircraft is basically the same airplane as the one which is now in China. He says that the plane is old, slow, and big....that he would be very surprised if it could hit a fighter unless the fighter pilot was asleep. Should the US aplogize? Should the US cut off trade relations? Should the crew be held in China? Should the plane be returned to the US?
Should the US aplogize? Yes.United States should apologize for bumping the plane into Chinese fighter F-8 Should the US cut off trade relations? Well,U.S is heavily relied on China,and it has given most favored status to China.Putting sanctions on China would adversly effect both China & U.S Should the crew be held in China? They should be tried according to Chinese laws. Should the plane be returned to the US? Well,it should. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Visual Basic programmer. -------------------------------------------------- Share your thoughts..