2003 Salary Survey
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
Gerald Schwab wrote: Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813. This is too funny! I recently saw a posting for a C# developer. The pay was near $34K/yr. My wife and I both just laughed at the thought that an employer thought he'd get someone with skills for that amount. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Wayne
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
Damn! I am working at the wrong company. BuggyMax
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Damn! I am working at the wrong company. BuggyMax
BuggyMax wrote: Damn! I am working at the wrong company. I agree. I am the highest level programmer position defined by my company (University of Pittsburgh) and I think the cap is less than $75K.... John
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
One other thing C# developer getting more than a C++ programmer. To me that is interesting. I know this will start a flame war. To me C#, Java and VB are much more simpler languages than C++. They are built for RAD where coding style and application performance are not very important and thus they don't need developers that are as skilled at programming. John
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One other thing C# developer getting more than a C++ programmer. To me that is interesting. I know this will start a flame war. To me C#, Java and VB are much more simpler languages than C++. They are built for RAD where coding style and application performance are not very important and thus they don't need developers that are as skilled at programming. John
Interesting. As a C++ AND C# developer, I disagree. VB is clearly for morons ( and yes, I have used it ), but VB.NET is really VB made to look like C#, a step in the death of VB and the rise of C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. C# does indeed hold your hand in some areas, and have some annoyances, but C++ has it's own annoyances, it's just that because we've used it for a long time, we take them for granted and forgive them. I think C# and C++ are both good languages, which any decent programmer in the Windows world should take the time to know. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
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Interesting. As a C++ AND C# developer, I disagree. VB is clearly for morons ( and yes, I have used it ), but VB.NET is really VB made to look like C#, a step in the death of VB and the rise of C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. C# does indeed hold your hand in some areas, and have some annoyances, but C++ has it's own annoyances, it's just that because we've used it for a long time, we take them for granted and forgive them. I think C# and C++ are both good languages, which any decent programmer in the Windows world should take the time to know. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: As a C++ AND C# developer, I disagree. VB is clearly for morons HAH! I used to think I just didn't give a damn and happily coded along in C++, JAVA, and C# (I haven't been forced to touch VB in 4+ years). Now that I am working on a project that requires me to use VB (6 not .Net) I have got to agree with you. What a god awful language, I feel like it slows me down more than it speeds things up. I am now officialy joing the VB haters club. And, anybody know what the "f" is up with having to declare "withevents" in order to consume a members event? Is it just me or is it a complete hack? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Interesting. As a C++ AND C# developer, I disagree. VB is clearly for morons ( and yes, I have used it ), but VB.NET is really VB made to look like C#, a step in the death of VB and the rise of C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. C# does indeed hold your hand in some areas, and have some annoyances, but C++ has it's own annoyances, it's just that because we've used it for a long time, we take them for granted and forgive them. I think C# and C++ are both good languages, which any decent programmer in the Windows world should take the time to know. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. Ahem.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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Christian Graus wrote: C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. Ahem.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
Yes, I know that it's been given over to standardisation ( to annoy Scott McNealy, as Java has never been standardised ), and I thought of that as I wrote it, I just couldn't think of a better word to explain what I meant: a language that originates with Microsoft and which Microsoft promotes. And until C# runs on non Wintel machines ( and I know that is coming, too ), the standardisation is mostly meaningless, as far as I can tell. It's a good thing though, it's one of many ways that Microsoft seem to be doing good things as far as developers are concerned. And they owe us, after that awful video of Balmer saying 'developers, developers, developers, developers, developers'.... How embarrassing for him. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
I would say that there are more C++ developers than C# developers. Therefore, you need to pay more to get the C# guy. Most companies that post job openings for a C# developer require .Net experience and don't even know what .Net is. They think it is just another domain on the Internet. As for Salary Surveys. I don't know where they get their data, but they obviously haven't look at the recent job market. I haven't had a raise in two years, just about every benefit I had or could have has been elimintated. The only thing left is a pay cut *knocks on wood*. Most positions I see these days being advertised are for at MOST 60k. They average in the 35k-48k range though. Then of course there are the other jobs posted by employment agencies which never tell you what the pay is. It isn't 98k though I promise. My guess is that the survey was from people within Microsoft for the majority. This inflates the numbers. It's like doing a survey of Java programmers. Those that work for Sun are most likely paid higher because they are the "experts" and they work with it every day. Not to mention that Sun is a large company as is Microsoft. Start surveying medium and small business and those numbers will deflate quickly to more like 65k. Still not bad though. Also something that should be taken in to account. What is the average years of experience of those surveyed? Chances are that most of them have considerable years of programming experience in general and have degrees. Those that don't aren't working these days. At least here where I am from. The more years of experience, the more pay. That is how it goes. Break the surveyed salaries down into age groups and I am sure you would find that the lower end of experience/age are much lower. 35k-45k average.
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Yes, I know that it's been given over to standardisation ( to annoy Scott McNealy, as Java has never been standardised ), and I thought of that as I wrote it, I just couldn't think of a better word to explain what I meant: a language that originates with Microsoft and which Microsoft promotes. And until C# runs on non Wintel machines ( and I know that is coming, too ), the standardisation is mostly meaningless, as far as I can tell. It's a good thing though, it's one of many ways that Microsoft seem to be doing good things as far as developers are concerned. And they owe us, after that awful video of Balmer saying 'developers, developers, developers, developers, developers'.... How embarrassing for him. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: And until C# runs on non Wintel machines ( and I know that is coming, too ), It's here. Mono runs really well on a RedHat machine my friend has. He can even run most of the code I write...granted the WinForms stuff isn't all there...and the ASP.NET support is still not quite there...but it's pretty darn good.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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Interesting. As a C++ AND C# developer, I disagree. VB is clearly for morons ( and yes, I have used it ), but VB.NET is really VB made to look like C#, a step in the death of VB and the rise of C# as Microsofts sole proprietary langauge. C# does indeed hold your hand in some areas, and have some annoyances, but C++ has it's own annoyances, it's just that because we've used it for a long time, we take them for granted and forgive them. I think C# and C++ are both good languages, which any decent programmer in the Windows world should take the time to know. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic
Christian Graus wrote: VB is clearly for morons I agree 100%. John
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I would say that there are more C++ developers than C# developers. Therefore, you need to pay more to get the C# guy. Most companies that post job openings for a C# developer require .Net experience and don't even know what .Net is. They think it is just another domain on the Internet. As for Salary Surveys. I don't know where they get their data, but they obviously haven't look at the recent job market. I haven't had a raise in two years, just about every benefit I had or could have has been elimintated. The only thing left is a pay cut *knocks on wood*. Most positions I see these days being advertised are for at MOST 60k. They average in the 35k-48k range though. Then of course there are the other jobs posted by employment agencies which never tell you what the pay is. It isn't 98k though I promise. My guess is that the survey was from people within Microsoft for the majority. This inflates the numbers. It's like doing a survey of Java programmers. Those that work for Sun are most likely paid higher because they are the "experts" and they work with it every day. Not to mention that Sun is a large company as is Microsoft. Start surveying medium and small business and those numbers will deflate quickly to more like 65k. Still not bad though. Also something that should be taken in to account. What is the average years of experience of those surveyed? Chances are that most of them have considerable years of programming experience in general and have degrees. Those that don't aren't working these days. At least here where I am from. The more years of experience, the more pay. That is how it goes. Break the surveyed salaries down into age groups and I am sure you would find that the lower end of experience/age are much lower. 35k-45k average.
Robert Little wrote: Most positions I see these days being advertised are for at MOST 60k. They average in the 35k-48k range though. Then of course there are the other jobs posted by employment agencies which never tell you what the pay is. It isn't 98k though I promise. I have seen the same. John
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
I'm really surprised programmers actually produce for such pitiful salaries. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
Save your work
**This link is to reboot your PCIt's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
Glad I have been busy with C# for a bit over a year now ;) First off, their salary survey is really off-base from anything I have seen. It currently labels the Pacific-Northwest (where I currently live) as higher paid than the average. WRONG... It is rough out here and Oregon happens to have one of the highest unemployment rates in the U.S. (even though there are over 1,900 tech firms in just the northern part of the state) Tech jobs are almost non-existent out here. They used to have a fairly good salary but since the downturn began, that is no longer the case. I see jobs for three or more years experience frequently listed for $30K-50K while their survey says $76K is the average. Actually, that number seems to be more the high-end of the salary. I have been watching many of the job search sites for about six months now and I have noticed a drastic decrease in the salary and demand for C++ unless you are on a Unix/Linux type system. MFC (and most MS Windows C++) is now almost extinct in the job searches. Yes, there seem to be a growing number of C#/VB.NET jobs and I am sure there will be many more in the near future. What I have seen in the job search sites is that the typical job listing is in the $50K-70K area depending if you have lead experience or not. There are postings on both the other ends of this range. I have seen postings for $130K for a .NET architect (Texas) requiring C#/.NET experience. While on the other end, I have seen listings as low as $30K requiring over on year experience with C#. The sad part (since most of my skill in this area) is that those C++ jobs on MS Platform is thinning out. There are far more programmers than jobs and many of these jobs are either going to those that will work for far less or moving to new languages/platforms preparing for the future. I am sure we will not see a C# OS for many years if at all and C++ will still be around as is Cobol and Fortran now, but the market is shrinking. My watch of the job sites have proven that to me as I have seen Java jobs replace C++ ones. Now there are moving to .NET jobs. You need to watch out though, most of the current job listings, are very focused and require many different skill sets. Employers are getting picky trying to weed out the field and to get help as cheap as they can. Until six months ago, I worked for a company in Ohio where I got paid $61.5K (was a little lower than I could have had in other places in Columbus, saw several at $65K and one at $68K, but it was a great place to work so
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Did anyone else see Visual studio magazine's "2003 Salary Survey" article? Average salary for a C# developer is $98,813.:omg: And the average salary for Visual C++ 6.0 developers is $75,500. That's almost a $24,000 difference. Does that sound fishy to anyone else? http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2003_06/magazine/features/salarysurvey/[^]
If input is from an employment agency then they are bound to inflate figures in order to get more people onboard. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Christian Graus wrote: And until C# runs on non Wintel machines ( and I know that is coming, too ), It's here. Mono runs really well on a RedHat machine my friend has. He can even run most of the code I write...granted the WinForms stuff isn't all there...and the ASP.NET support is still not quite there...but it's pretty darn good.
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
David Stone wrote: It's here. Mono runs really well on a RedHat machine my friend has. He can even run most of the code I write...granted the WinForms stuff isn't all there...and the ASP.NET support is still not quite there...but it's pretty darn good. It's easier to say: "Console applications are running great. The rest are almost there, but still need work." My latest article: GBVB - Converting VB.NET code to C#
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If input is from an employment agency then they are bound to inflate figures in order to get more people onboard. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
Actually, if I remember correctly, they survey programmers that visit their site and ask them what they make. A lot like those old fishing stories where the fish was this.. big... I think it is more what they think they should be paid and not real life. I am sure there are many that answer correctly but those that do not really throw the numbers off. Rocky Moore <><