Matrix Reloaded - Theories - (SPOILERS!)
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Brit wrote: I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter No, not at all. The Commander setup a counter attack along one of the attack lines that the Sentinels were using. The plan was the Sentinels would pop into a tunnel and a pre-placed EMP bomb would go off, crippling them. A squadron of hovercraft would then fly in and devestate the Sentinels. What happened though was that the guy who was taken over by Smith (you remember the guy who got caught while picking up the landline? The guy who Smith stuck his hand into and deployed his virus into?) let off the EMP bomb early, on purpose, which crippled the squadron of hovercraft. The Sentinels then came through, found the crippled craft and "slaughtered them." They did not get to Zion, not yet. That is why that guy (the guy at the end in a coma opposite Neo) was the only survivor. He is Smith. Smith does not just replicate in the Matrix, he can replicate beyond, into the minds of jacked in people. People who can leave the Matrix but not leave behind the virus. Kapiche? Very bad for Zion. They have a free agent Smith mind in their midst now, probably more than one as well. Remember that was the same guy who cut his hand and was going to stab Neo in Zion on their way to the Nebuchadnezzar.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
Paul Watson wrote: Smith does not just replicate in the Matrix, he can replicate beyond, into the minds of jacked in people. People who can leave the Matrix but not leave behind the virus. Ok Paul, new theory here, They are not leaving the matrix to goto the "Real World" they are leaving going into a "Back-up" Matrix designed to surpress the 1%. what do you think? Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP) -
Mr. Chen, Greetings and salutations. I hope this post finds you in good health, and of sound mind and willing spirit, for the question i am about to ask requires your utmost attention. In recent days, several observations have given me cause for concern over your present state of being. Chief among these is your writing style, which has degenerated into a veritable mish-mash of abbreviations, contractions, and seemingly superfluous punctuation. Also there's your bio pic, but i'll not touch that. I am troubled by this, as it gives rise to fears that i hardly dare utter, and even the thought of them is enough to trouble me. And yet, i must ask: peterchen, have you become a SMS addict? :omg:
- Shog9 -
I'd show a smile but I'm too weak I'd share with you, could I only speak
Shog, thanks a lot for the consideration. I'm fine, really ;) However, your deep fear is proven right, and in turn the conclusiveness of my obviously changed writing behaviour is frightening for me. Yes. I wrote my first SMS a few weeks ago, a few days after Easter (although there is really no religous context apparent to me). A remote interrelationship forced me into relying on this method of comunication I considered unfitting for me - until now. It should be noted, however, that I always take the time not to abbreviate Short Messages sent by me through my Mobile, and I take well care to keep them gramatically and syntactically correct. Maybe I am compensating here forr some unreleased pressure from my newfound RealLife occupation. Maybe I started to explore the weirder sides of mine again. But, as you might understand, I'm not really qualified to give definitely reliable information on that topic. Shog9 wrote: Also there's your bio pic, but i'll not touch that. :laugh: Shog9 wrote: Mr. Chen, AND DON'T CALL ME MR CHEN OR I SEND MY ALIEN CAT WOMBAT AFTER YOU!!!! :rolleyes:
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
If you haven't seen the film then close this message now... There are some serious SPOILERS ahead!
* * * * * spoiler space - do not proceed if you haven't seen the film! * * * * *I've spent the whole day thinking about the meaning of Neo's conversation with the architect. As well as having a dream about it last night! The architect said there was an unavoidable imbalance created in the code for the Matrix. An imbalance that was caused by the human desire for free choice. The architect and the oracle realised after a few iterations, that 99% of humans would accept their existence in the Matrix - But 1% would want to 'free their minds' and escape into the real world. Zion was created as a Matrix outside the Matrix, a 'real world' Matrix to accommodate the 1% anomaly of minds that wanted to be free. By creating Zion, the architect had a place to store the 1% anomaly. There *is* a real world, but it exists *outside* of Zion. However, the people in Zion believe they are already free of the Matrix, and therefore no choice/imbalance exists. The real world *outside* the Zion Matrix may even be a normal earth (i.e. no scorched sky) This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before. If Zion really existed in the real world, how could it have fallen 6 times before? The fact that Neo chose the left door (the door leading to Trinity) is a pre-determined event. The architect knew Neo would make this choice again and again, thus closing off the threat to the Matrix source. Neo is starting to realise what is happening, his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. The Zion Matrix has placed him in a coma until Zion falls, and the Matrix is reset once again (for the 7th time) Comments? John www.silveronion.com[^]I have to agree that there are two levels Matrix, either that or everything that the architect was saying is bs. In order to rebuild Zion, the people doing the rebuilding can't know that the previous Zion was destroyed. If they knew, then the whole system wouldn't work. Therefore, when they select people to rebuild Zion, all their memories and determination to fight the machines can be set in place via the outer level matrix. Also, there was some nice symbolism of taking another red pill, in the form of red candy given to Neo by the oracle... although it looked more like a mike and ike. There is a boatload of new religous symbolism in there too. If Morpheus is a John the Baptist figure, Neo is most definitely Jesus. Depending on your religous views, Jesus is also considered to be the 6th prophet (Baha'i Faith, Progressive Revelation), Jesus' main message being love and all... it all kind of ties in together in a neat little package. I should probably do some work now.
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Paul Watson wrote: The guy on the other end, the guy now with the mind of Smith is the guy in the coma at the end. It is the same guy who cut his hand and was about to stab Neo in Zion. You kapiche? AHH! thank you:rose: so no more "Hello Mr. Anderson" guy, he is now in the coma guy. is that it? so they are the two anomalies, right? OK, with these new facts my M3 hypothisis is being formed I think the "new smith" and Noe will team-up to destroy the machines. anyone else saying this? Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Albert Einstein (INTP)JoeSox wrote: I think the "new smith" and Noe will team-up to destroy the machines. anyone else saying this? Remember that Smith hates humans. He hates the smell of us. We are the virus to him, a scourge on the planet. In the first movie he literally shudders from the smell and taste of Morpheus. So he might team up now to help Neo, but in the end he will want Neo and his band dead as well. Also Smith is rather powerful inside the Matrix. In the trailer for Revolutions you see an army of Smith, not just the 100 of the Burly Man scene, but an army. Smith can kick other agent arse (you see him easily taking over one of the official agents.) Anyway. We will see in November, all will be revealed :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
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John Honan wrote: no scorched sky Hmmm. That is a tempting though. I think the sky is scorched, that it was the last desperate attempt by humanity before machine dominance to beat the machines. If the sky was not scorched then the machines could be done with us human battery cells as we are a bit of a pain to them (we smell, we do try and escape etc.) Of course this begs the question; Why haven't the machines either simply cleared the skies or if they cannot do that then why have they not gone into orbit and piped solar power down? Of course if you are right then the final imagery in Revolutions will be of a pristine Earth. The final control level revealed (forgetting solar power the machines would want us to think the sky is scorched so that we have less to fight for, freedom in a baren world is less than freedom in a pristine world.) It will be hard to swallow though, the brothers will have to lead us up to that very carefully or we will revolt. Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. John Honan wrote: his powers in the Zion Matrix (stopping the sentinels attacking with his hand) demonstrated this. His powers can be explained without the desert of the real and Zion also being inside a Matrix. The Brothers* could be showing us that even in the "real" world there are powers we are not aware of, rules can be bent. I seriously think The Matrix is not telling us that we may actually be in a machine constructed Matrix. I think The Matrix is telling us that in everyday life we can do things we are currently unaware of. That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Magic is not real because we are told it is not real. We cannot be rock stars, CEOs or geniuses, because we are told so. You don't have to go as far as wanting to fly or firing thunderbolts from your fingertips to realise that we have created a Matrix around ourselves. We delude ourselves into mediocrity. John Honan wrote: This is the only way I can explain the fact the architect knew Neo had been there six times before, and that Zion had fallen six times before.
Paul Watson wrote: Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon was actually the transition from the core Matrix to the Zion Matrix. The machine had to make the experience convincing enough so the freed minds would actually believe they had been freed. He (or rather the body his consciousness is occupying) is still hooked in - except to the 'Zion Matrix' Paul Watson wrote: That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Good point. This all depends on which direction the brothers want to take us in Revolutions. They can go with the 'We are *all* in a matrix created by society' political message. Or the 'How do you know if you ever actually exist in the real world?' philosophical message. Paul Watson wrote: The Architect is a machine and that was his pitch to convince Neo that he was deluded, that he was just an anomaly like 5 before and so should just give up. Meanwhile he really was a few feet from beating the Matrix. I don't believe the Matrix understands deceit. I don't believe the architect can actually lie, just confuse! Paul Watson wrote: I don't know wether Neo chose right; That if he had taken the right door the Matrix would have fallen. I think the door to the right would reset the Matrix back to zero. Neo would select the '17 people' to rebuild the Zion Matrix (representing the first humans who were free, and started Zion 100 years previously). And the cycle would start again. If I recall correctly, Zion has existed for 100 years. If the Matrix has been reset 6 times, that makes it 600 years since the war. 600 years might have been long enough to clear the scorched sky - If it was ever scorched in the first place. Perhaps this is just a story fabricated by the Zion matrix to keep the humans under control. Perhaps this is all about control/slavery of the human species? Paul Watson wrote: One last thing; Neo could only stop bullets inside the Matrix. Outside he managed to stop 5 or so machines with what looked like a discharge of energy. A far great
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Paul Watson wrote: Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon was actually the transition from the core Matrix to the Zion Matrix. The machine had to make the experience convincing enough so the freed minds would actually believe they had been freed. He (or rather the body his consciousness is occupying) is still hooked in - except to the 'Zion Matrix' Paul Watson wrote: That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Good point. This all depends on which direction the brothers want to take us in Revolutions. They can go with the 'We are *all* in a matrix created by society' political message. Or the 'How do you know if you ever actually exist in the real world?' philosophical message. Paul Watson wrote: The Architect is a machine and that was his pitch to convince Neo that he was deluded, that he was just an anomaly like 5 before and so should just give up. Meanwhile he really was a few feet from beating the Matrix. I don't believe the Matrix understands deceit. I don't believe the architect can actually lie, just confuse! Paul Watson wrote: I don't know wether Neo chose right; That if he had taken the right door the Matrix would have fallen. I think the door to the right would reset the Matrix back to zero. Neo would select the '17 people' to rebuild the Zion Matrix (representing the first humans who were free, and started Zion 100 years previously). And the cycle would start again. If I recall correctly, Zion has existed for 100 years. If the Matrix has been reset 6 times, that makes it 600 years since the war. 600 years might have been long enough to clear the scorched sky - If it was ever scorched in the first place. Perhaps this is just a story fabricated by the Zion matrix to keep the humans under control. Perhaps this is all about control/slavery of the human species? Paul Watson wrote: One last thing; Neo could only stop bullets inside the Matrix. Outside he managed to stop 5 or so machines with what looked like a discharge of energy. A far great
John Honan wrote: The machine had to make the experience convincing enough so the freed minds would actually believe they had been freed In that case we saw it from the viewpoint of the narator and not a machine. Definitley possible. I hope not. I still think "Zion is in another Matrix" is just too obvious. There is a fine line between a clever riddle and a tedious one. John Honan wrote: I don't believe the Matrix understands deceit. I don't believe the architect can actually lie, just confuse Who first thought up this theory that the machines never lie? Just curious, not sure where it came from or why. Surely if the machine is capable of constructions meant to confuse (e.g. the building with no elevator access and thousands of doors in it) then it is capable of through the Architect simply throwing up more confusion by concocting stories about 5 previous Neos etc. I don't see the difference between the lie that is the Matrix (it is a lie, it is an illusion that we live in the 20th century, the truth is that we live in cocoons and are used as power stations, the machines lie to us to keep us content and docile) and the story that Zion is also inside the Matrix or that door A gets you human salvation and door B gets you love. It is all a lie, the whole thing, the machine lies from the moment you are born into it. It sees it as control, but it is still lieing :) John Honan wrote: or maybe I just need to get out more? Naaah, these mental exercises are fun. I don't care if it is not real, it is still interesting to debate and contemplate.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Maunder wrote: knowing HTML doesn't mean having style, class or restraint.
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I have to agree that there are two levels Matrix, either that or everything that the architect was saying is bs. In order to rebuild Zion, the people doing the rebuilding can't know that the previous Zion was destroyed. If they knew, then the whole system wouldn't work. Therefore, when they select people to rebuild Zion, all their memories and determination to fight the machines can be set in place via the outer level matrix. Also, there was some nice symbolism of taking another red pill, in the form of red candy given to Neo by the oracle... although it looked more like a mike and ike. There is a boatload of new religous symbolism in there too. If Morpheus is a John the Baptist figure, Neo is most definitely Jesus. Depending on your religous views, Jesus is also considered to be the 6th prophet (Baha'i Faith, Progressive Revelation), Jesus' main message being love and all... it all kind of ties in together in a neat little package. I should probably do some work now.
jremignanti wrote: in the form of red candy given to Neo by the oracle That was cool, glad others noticed it. She gave him the sweet/red-pill right before she told him to find the Keymaker. Yet again going through the looking glass, this time to the door of light and the Architect. Last time he went through the looking glass he went from the Matrix to reality of Zion (which I don't think is another Matrix.)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Maunder wrote: knowing HTML doesn't mean having style, class or restraint.
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Paul Watson wrote: Also remember in the The Matrix we see Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon. Whose viewpoint where we looking from when we saw that? If it was from a narator or machine viewpoint then Zion is real and not inside another Matrix, the sky is scorched and Neo is out of the Matrix. Neo being jetisoned from his cocoon was actually the transition from the core Matrix to the Zion Matrix. The machine had to make the experience convincing enough so the freed minds would actually believe they had been freed. He (or rather the body his consciousness is occupying) is still hooked in - except to the 'Zion Matrix' Paul Watson wrote: That the only Matrix is the one humanity has created for itself and called common sense, culture, civilisation. From birth we are indoctrinated with what we can and cannot do. Good point. This all depends on which direction the brothers want to take us in Revolutions. They can go with the 'We are *all* in a matrix created by society' political message. Or the 'How do you know if you ever actually exist in the real world?' philosophical message. Paul Watson wrote: The Architect is a machine and that was his pitch to convince Neo that he was deluded, that he was just an anomaly like 5 before and so should just give up. Meanwhile he really was a few feet from beating the Matrix. I don't believe the Matrix understands deceit. I don't believe the architect can actually lie, just confuse! Paul Watson wrote: I don't know wether Neo chose right; That if he had taken the right door the Matrix would have fallen. I think the door to the right would reset the Matrix back to zero. Neo would select the '17 people' to rebuild the Zion Matrix (representing the first humans who were free, and started Zion 100 years previously). And the cycle would start again. If I recall correctly, Zion has existed for 100 years. If the Matrix has been reset 6 times, that makes it 600 years since the war. 600 years might have been long enough to clear the scorched sky - If it was ever scorched in the first place. Perhaps this is just a story fabricated by the Zion matrix to keep the humans under control. Perhaps this is all about control/slavery of the human species? Paul Watson wrote: One last thing; Neo could only stop bullets inside the Matrix. Outside he managed to stop 5 or so machines with what looked like a discharge of energy. A far great
I just thought of something else: The Oracle gave Neo the sweet (a red-pill) right before she told him to find the Keymaker. Yet again going through the looking glass, this time to the door of light and the Architect. Last time he was given a red-pill he went from the Matrix to the reality of Zion. Now if Zion is still inside the Matrix then nothing much is gained by the second red pill. The story is not really advanced because the door of light is just yet more deciet, just more layers of confusion and lies. If this is the case then we the viewer are just going to yawn at any more so called revelations because it will just be one more of many shell games. If however Zion is in reality then the second red-pill does have some meaning. It was leading Neo to the Matrix source, even though he did not take that door it is still significant. So yeah, I do need to get out more ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChris Maunder wrote: knowing HTML doesn't mean having style, class or restraint.
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Mind-boggling special effects - It was really a case of "how the hell did they film *that* part?!" And the soundtrack, amazing.... ;) Just don't think about the film when you've left the cinema, it'll do your head in... Hence this thread! :eek: John www.silveronion.com[^]
Ok. I've seen the film now... And I agree completely with your comments.. not sure if The Zion Matrix has put Neo into a coma though.... Maybe he's in the coma form the realisation or from the suddend amount of power or something. Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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Brit wrote: I thought Zion had already fallen, as they say at the end "it was a slaughter No, not at all. The Commander setup a counter attack along one of the attack lines that the Sentinels were using. The plan was the Sentinels would pop into a tunnel and a pre-placed EMP bomb would go off, crippling them. A squadron of hovercraft would then fly in and devestate the Sentinels. What happened though was that the guy who was taken over by Smith (you remember the guy who got caught while picking up the landline? The guy who Smith stuck his hand into and deployed his virus into?) let off the EMP bomb early, on purpose, which crippled the squadron of hovercraft. The Sentinels then came through, found the crippled craft and "slaughtered them." They did not get to Zion, not yet. That is why that guy (the guy at the end in a coma opposite Neo) was the only survivor. He is Smith. Smith does not just replicate in the Matrix, he can replicate beyond, into the minds of jacked in people. People who can leave the Matrix but not leave behind the virus. Kapiche? Very bad for Zion. They have a free agent Smith mind in their midst now, probably more than one as well. Remember that was the same guy who cut his hand and was going to stab Neo in Zion on their way to the Nebuchadnezzar.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africabrianwelsch wrote: I find my day goes by more smoothly if I never question other peoples fantasies. My own disturb me enough.
Paul... I think we both have the exact same view of everything that happened in the movie... :-D Regards, Brian Dela :-)