Planning to buy a new laptop this October: RAM amount + other questions...
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The Thinkpad X1 seems to be a favourite on Slant too: best-laptop-for-programming[^] I had a lot of laptops of different brands in the medium price range but after some years of intensive usage they all had problems, never had a Thinkpad though so this might be an interesting option.
If you jump into Thinkpads be aware they have the left Ctrl key swapped with the Fn key... :D:D:D:D I've been super happy with them since the first day. Their keyboard is super nice to type in, as in other business laptops you have the "nipple" in the middle of the keyboard to assist you in summer days when you don't want to put your sweaty fingers into the touch pad, the software updater they include is super easy to use and (as other brands out there) they can come to solve any problem in your device at any place in the world in 24 hours, which is very nice if you travel around and your work is done in your laptop. Before the "extreme" versions appeared the X1 were more focused on travelling and being ultra light, and therefore much more expensive than a T series laptop. Nowadays the extreme version is much more powerful than the others (it's exactly the same than a P1 workstation with a different processor and graphic card) and it makes it a good choice as a laptop that must last +/- 5 years. :thumbsup:
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Hi all, At the end of this year (October +/-) I plan to buy a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 3. I will mainly use Visual Studio, office, some robot programming IDEs with 3D robot representations, some virtual machines and not much more... RAM question Given currently the SSD disks are very fast, and seeing the default RAM amount in thinkpads is 16GB I was doubting if it was worth or not to upgrade it to 32 or even 64. DISPLAY question 4K or FHD? It will have a big impact in battery life and maybe in a 15" display it's not worth it... not sure of that. In any case IPS not OLED, I don't want the burn effect and I hate the yellow whites in phones, I don't want them in my laptop. THUNDERBOLT DOCK STATION question Years ago I got a USB dock station from Lenovo; it was a USB2.0 dock station. the experience was terrible, dragging a window stuttered a lot... Now I have a mechanical dock station which works perfectly and that connects my laptop to a set of USB loudspeakers, keyboard, mouse, 2 24" displays using Display Port, a Web cam, power and LAN. That mechanical dock won't be compatible with any new Thinkpad model, so I won't be able to use it. I'm planning to get the best thunderbolt 3 dock station they offer at the time (currently this one[^]) anyone has experience with this dock station? Does it work smoothly? Thank you all for your hints and comments! :thumbsup: + :beer:
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
At work lately we have been having difficulty with the newer Lenovo docks. Sometimes the laptops inexplicably go to sleep and won't wake up. Sometimes none of the USB ports work on the dock. Very intermittent and with everyone WFH very hard to debug. I bought a Dell XPS 15 for my SO with the thunderbolt dock and she loves it. She switches it between her work machine and home machine all the time and it works flawlessly. My 2 cents.
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In the worst case I've got up to 3 VM's running at once, but that is very rare... Usually I have 1 or 2 max on... I guess that 32 should suffice in this case.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
I suppose it all depends on how extensively you rely on VMs. I'm all in. In my job-related tasks, I need to run 3 different versions of server software that each requires 8GB of RAM, at a minimum. Then I have VS, a dedicated SQL server, WSUS, a DC, and a bunch of small-ish VMs I use for testing on various versions of Windows. If, at a given time, I'm down to 10 VMs running simultaneously, it's because I've run out of memory and had to power down a few of them. I like to tinker with various distributions of Linux, but had to put together a second VM host just to run them. Otherwise sharing 64GB was a constant juggling act. If you don't max out the RAM the day you get the machine, at least make sure you get a board that supports a ton of it. Otherwise you're stuck with it. Incidentally, what used to be inadequate as a VM host--with 32GB--has become my gaming machine...I've yet to come across any game that requires, or benefits, from more. But of course this whole discussion was about laptops. YMMV.
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I suppose it all depends on how extensively you rely on VMs. I'm all in. In my job-related tasks, I need to run 3 different versions of server software that each requires 8GB of RAM, at a minimum. Then I have VS, a dedicated SQL server, WSUS, a DC, and a bunch of small-ish VMs I use for testing on various versions of Windows. If, at a given time, I'm down to 10 VMs running simultaneously, it's because I've run out of memory and had to power down a few of them. I like to tinker with various distributions of Linux, but had to put together a second VM host just to run them. Otherwise sharing 64GB was a constant juggling act. If you don't max out the RAM the day you get the machine, at least make sure you get a board that supports a ton of it. Otherwise you're stuck with it. Incidentally, what used to be inadequate as a VM host--with 32GB--has become my gaming machine...I've yet to come across any game that requires, or benefits, from more. But of course this whole discussion was about laptops. YMMV.
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Now I'm searching my jaw under the desk... 10 VM at once and that because you've reached the memory limit???? WOW!
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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I could give each VM less memory to run with, but that means each one would start paging a lot more frequently, and I have very little tolerance for that nowadays. My time's more valuable, and the extra memory pays for itself.
Clearly you are right... :) I can't imagine a situation in which I would need more than 32GB ram, but in any case, when I buy the laptop I'll get it with the 32 GB in one slot and one extra RAM slot free, just in case I need to expand the memory in the future.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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If you jump into Thinkpads be aware they have the left Ctrl key swapped with the Fn key... :D:D:D:D I've been super happy with them since the first day. Their keyboard is super nice to type in, as in other business laptops you have the "nipple" in the middle of the keyboard to assist you in summer days when you don't want to put your sweaty fingers into the touch pad, the software updater they include is super easy to use and (as other brands out there) they can come to solve any problem in your device at any place in the world in 24 hours, which is very nice if you travel around and your work is done in your laptop. Before the "extreme" versions appeared the X1 were more focused on travelling and being ultra light, and therefore much more expensive than a T series laptop. Nowadays the extreme version is much more powerful than the others (it's exactly the same than a P1 workstation with a different processor and graphic card) and it makes it a good choice as a laptop that must last +/- 5 years. :thumbsup:
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
A big disadvantage of the X1 is that it has no ethernet port, the "ordinary" Thinkpads do have one though. So if weight is not your main concern, the ordinary Thinkpads seem to be a better and cheaper choice. :-\
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A big disadvantage of the X1 is that it has no ethernet port, the "ordinary" Thinkpads do have one though. So if weight is not your main concern, the ordinary Thinkpads seem to be a better and cheaper choice. :-\
I've been using T series Thinkpads and work wonderfully well, but they can't be upgraded to the same levels: less RAM, less HDD capacity... That's why I decided to go for the X1 extreme... They seem they have added more options in the T15... I'll wait for the T15s to show up (it should be less bulky) and then I'll decide... Currently I have a T460s and I'm super happy... ^^
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Clearly you are right... :) I can't imagine a situation in which I would need more than 32GB ram, but in any case, when I buy the laptop I'll get it with the 32 GB in one slot and one extra RAM slot free, just in case I need to expand the memory in the future.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
Joan M wrote:
I can't imagine a situation in which I would need more than 32GB ram
I thought so too. I started "seriously" using VMs on a system with 16GB, and quickly outgrew that. Fortunately the motherboard could handle 32, so I maxed it out then. It didn't take long before my VM use habits made it clear 32GB was also not going to be sufficient--the more you have, the more you'll use. Nowadays, my main VM host has 64GB, and I wish it had more - while the CPU (i7-4820K) is not a bottleneck and could handle some more, that's all its motherboard will take. Eventually I wanted to play with multiple Linux distributions, so that had to be moved to an Intel NUC with 32GB. Just for tinkering, most Linux distributions are plenty happy with 4GB (I run most with just 2). It's an i5 rather than an i7 (though newer than the i7), and frankly I notice the difference. Though I don't suppose it's fair to compare an i5 in a NUC with an i7 in a desktop system.
Joan M wrote:
when I buy the laptop I'll get it with the 32 GB in one slot and one extra RAM slot free, just in case I need to expand the memory in the future
That's a wise approach. Take a good guess as to what it is you'll need, then buy hardware that can accommodate more *if* it turns out you need to turn it up to 11. :-)
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At work lately we have been having difficulty with the newer Lenovo docks. Sometimes the laptops inexplicably go to sleep and won't wake up. Sometimes none of the USB ports work on the dock. Very intermittent and with everyone WFH very hard to debug. I bought a Dell XPS 15 for my SO with the thunderbolt dock and she loves it. She switches it between her work machine and home machine all the time and it works flawlessly. My 2 cents.
I will get a Thinkpad, get used to their keyboard and to the ways the brand work, but I'll keep an eye to those dock stations before buying one... X| It's incredible they make this kind of mistakes...
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Hi all, At the end of this year (October +/-) I plan to buy a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 3. I will mainly use Visual Studio, office, some robot programming IDEs with 3D robot representations, some virtual machines and not much more... RAM question Given currently the SSD disks are very fast, and seeing the default RAM amount in thinkpads is 16GB I was doubting if it was worth or not to upgrade it to 32 or even 64. DISPLAY question 4K or FHD? It will have a big impact in battery life and maybe in a 15" display it's not worth it... not sure of that. In any case IPS not OLED, I don't want the burn effect and I hate the yellow whites in phones, I don't want them in my laptop. THUNDERBOLT DOCK STATION question Years ago I got a USB dock station from Lenovo; it was a USB2.0 dock station. the experience was terrible, dragging a window stuttered a lot... Now I have a mechanical dock station which works perfectly and that connects my laptop to a set of USB loudspeakers, keyboard, mouse, 2 24" displays using Display Port, a Web cam, power and LAN. That mechanical dock won't be compatible with any new Thinkpad model, so I won't be able to use it. I'm planning to get the best thunderbolt 3 dock station they offer at the time (currently this one[^]) anyone has experience with this dock station? Does it work smoothly? Thank you all for your hints and comments! :thumbsup: + :beer:
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/P53/p/22WS2WPWP53 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P14s/p/22WSP14P4S1 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P15s/p/22WSP15P5S1
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/P53/p/22WS2WPWP53 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P14s/p/22WSP14P4S1 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P15s/p/22WSP15P5S1
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
P53 is too bulky for the kind of job I do, some times I end up programming/monitoring things on top of a ladder. P14s and P15s are very similar to P1 / X1 extreme, once you configure them with all the bells and whistles they end more or less at the same cost. And I don't need the Xeon/Quadro items those laptops offer. That's why I thought going for the X1 extreme... up to 64 GB RAM (who knows what I will need in the future), the most powerful processors, a NVIDIA graphics card and 2 SSD HDD slots up to 2 TB each... The pity is that there is no RJ45... but there's a dongle that can help and (when on a ladder) I end up using an access point to have wireless connection to the machines. but thanks, yours are good recommendations.
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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At work lately we have been having difficulty with the newer Lenovo docks. Sometimes the laptops inexplicably go to sleep and won't wake up. Sometimes none of the USB ports work on the dock. Very intermittent and with everyone WFH very hard to debug. I bought a Dell XPS 15 for my SO with the thunderbolt dock and she loves it. She switches it between her work machine and home machine all the time and it works flawlessly. My 2 cents.
Hi again Richard, Have you updated all drivers? You've scared me a little... I need something that works well, and searching the internet I've seen other people had problems till they updated manually the drivers...
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
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Hi again Richard, Have you updated all drivers? You've scared me a little... I need something that works well, and searching the internet I've seen other people had problems till they updated manually the drivers...
www.robotecnik.com[^] - robots, CNC and PLC programming
Yes, eventually I saw the "manually" recommendation. The automatic method clearly missed many updates. I think the USB dock is now stable. We only have one like the model you mentioned. We have 3 of the previous model that is a "dock style" but the connectors slide in from the side (very problematic). And we have quite a few more of the older docks with the connector on the bottom of the laptop (very reliable). Perhaps the USB dock is an improvement over the cheesy slide dock. It is hard to judge with just 1 and I am having other driver problems with it (logitech USB camera causing BSOD, not the dock); so, I am probably being overly harsh.
