ARM, anyone?
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
There’s a really great YouTuber (Explaining Computers) who does great tests on h/w of all kinds and has done a lot of SBC (single board computers). He has at least one video here[^], which explains ARM-based SBC. It’s an unboxing with details and performance testing. That guy does a really great job of explaining options. It may ate least provide you with a start.
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
I suspect it's still so early when it comes to Windows-on-ARM that you probably won't find an expandable general-purpose box with standard parts like you would for a bog-standard x86-based PC. At this stage, I'd go for an already-built box that is supported end to end by its manufacturer - like, as you mentioned, the Volterra (which I admittedly know very little about). But expecting something like a standard PC, but running ARM?...I don't think the market is there yet.
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
We have some ARM-based single-board computers at work, but I don't know of any ARM-based computer that allows for the configuration flexibility that you have in mind. I know that at least some of these computers can run Windows for ARM, so Volterra is probably not MS's only target for this.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
There is the Ampere Altra developers workstation. [https://www.ipi.wiki/products/ampere-altra-developer-platform\](https://www.ipi.wiki/products/ampere-altra-developer-platform). I don't have one, and can't comment on its usability, but others seem to have got Win11 working on it: [Ampere Altra Max - Windows, GPUs, and Gaming | Jeff Geerling](https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/ampere-altra-max-windows-gpus-and-gaming) That all depends if you can A) live with the $2700 USD price tag and B) wait 6 weeks to get one.
Keep Calm and Carry On
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
As dandy72 suggested it feels pretty early to make the switch yet. Expect problems for the next year or two while they work out the kinks. Technology-wise, hypothetically for laptops and such, ARM is good option since it's low power, but pretty full featured - at least the ARM Cortex As typically are. For desktops and workstations not so much. I wouldn't want to develop on one yet for a number of reasons. I'd wait before you replace a primary machine with an ARM.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
You can check out ThinkPad X13s (13” Snapdragon) Laptop Snapdragon® 8cx Gen 3 Compute Platform (3.00 GHz up to 3.00 GHz)
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
A couple weeks back I decided that I needed a decent ARM machine in order to have a development box with weak memory ordering (especially important for Java since it doesn't hide the problems like x86/x64 hardware and the .NET platform do). I did an extensive review. Based on that I got myself a cheap ARM-based Chromebook and a Macbook Pro. Since I use JetBrains IDEs I can pick up on the Mac where I left off on my Wintel notebook and vice versa; the only thing I really miss on the Mac is LINQPad. Based on a month of working like this I can only say one thing: I should have gotten myself a juicy Macbook as soon as the M1 chip came out!
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
Thanks for all the replies. It seems quite clear to me that I am a (at least) a year or two early, asking for a proper ARM based desktop. I am not in a rush to upgrade (and the day I get an ARM desktop, I will most certainly keep my x64 running next to it - lots of my old software tools will never be ported to ARM). I most certainly want more flexibility than a laptop or notebook; they are no more extendable than the Volterra (which I have considered and rejected; lack of flexibility is one reason). Not only would I like to play around with ARM; I have recently done some reading on CUDA, but my 660Ti card is too old for running many of the samples in the CUDA programming guides I have picked up. I would like to plug in a more modern card - not for the speed (except to see how fast I can get my own code!) but for the 'compute capability', as nVidia calls it. Also, if I buy a new PC in late 2023 (or most likely 2024-25), I would want a reasonably modern architecture. ARMv9-A is two and a half years old; I won't go for older ones. USB4 is four years old; I won't go for USB3. So, thanks for the information. It confirms what I suspected: I need not panic yet. My old PC will do alright for another couple of years. I have plenty time for learning more about both ARM and CUDA before putting it into practice :-)
-
There is the Ampere Altra developers workstation. [https://www.ipi.wiki/products/ampere-altra-developer-platform\](https://www.ipi.wiki/products/ampere-altra-developer-platform). I don't have one, and can't comment on its usability, but others seem to have got Win11 working on it: [Ampere Altra Max - Windows, GPUs, and Gaming | Jeff Geerling](https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/ampere-altra-max-windows-gpus-and-gaming) That all depends if you can A) live with the $2700 USD price tag and B) wait 6 weeks to get one.
Keep Calm and Carry On
That one is getting closer - but 96 cores may be somewhat over the top :-) The price tag is one thing. That "someone has managed to get Window running on it" is not very comforting to me. The guy doing the porting says that "Windows on Arm has zero support for graphics cards yet" - that is not comforting, either. Also, HPC guys (buying this kind of machine) are sort of conservative. Even though ARMv9-A is two and a half years old, they stick to ARMv8. USB4 is four years old, they stick to USB3. My current PC has a 1 TB M.2 disk - they stick to 256 GB. They stick to DDR4 (yes, I know that current DDR5 chips are significant below it theoretical potential, but yet!) Yet, I am happy to learn that such machines are available, so thanks for the info - even if I am not going to buy one.
-
My PC cannot run Win11, an i7-5820K. That's fine with me; it gives me a good excuse for not upgrading from Win10 :-) I'd really like to get more familiar with ARM - not as an IoT processor, or as a smartphone, but as a full-sized desktop machine. I'd be running Win11 and dotNet on that. Are there CPians who has experience with any such machines? Which machines are available in the marketplace? I am aware of the MS Volterra, but would prefer something with configuration flexibility more like my current full tower: A decent video card; ARM's "Mali" LEGs (Low Energy Graphics) are not quite at the level of the GeForce cards, are they? I'd like to plug in more standard memory. Room for more internal disks. Something like a standard ATX motherboard, only with a different CPU/Chipset. Googling brings up some 2-4 year old solutions, for earlier ARM generations, or boards in the Arduino/RaspberryPi class (mostly for older, smaller ARMs). Is Volterra the only option at the present time? MS is offering a full Win11 for ARM - are all its customers using Volterra? Are any of you running Volterra and can report any experiences with it?
You may buy a MacBook Pro with an M2 and virtualize Windiws 11 ;) . Edited a type
Gilles Plante
