GTA In Trouble again
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Jan R Hansen wrote: So all we can play is... let me se.. ehh... Freecell, Hearts, Minesweeper.. cool Won't somebody think of the mines?!?!? -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
ehhh.. OK. Sorry. Make that "Freecell, Hearts" :-D Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
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For a reasoned and well balanced argument don't look here http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm[^] Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. And a quick trip away from reality "People, this is insane. This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy" Errm no sorry not even close. pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars
pseudonym67 wrote: Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of the game :-) BUt GTA is interesting in the respect that it is one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass" - the player can choose what they want to do - "good" things (pizza delivery, ambulance, police missions) or "bad" things (drive-bys, theft, etc) More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
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pseudonym67 wrote: Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of the game :-) BUt GTA is interesting in the respect that it is one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass" - the player can choose what they want to do - "good" things (pizza delivery, ambulance, police missions) or "bad" things (drive-bys, theft, etc) More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
Ian Darling wrote: More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). The example I like is Freelancer, which is very open.
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pseudonym67 wrote: Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of the game :-) BUt GTA is interesting in the respect that it is one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass" - the player can choose what they want to do - "good" things (pizza delivery, ambulance, police missions) or "bad" things (drive-bys, theft, etc) More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
Ian Darling wrote: one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass Black & White adjusts the game based on how "Good" or "Evil" your actions have been, too. I think it's a cool aspect.
"Things are not what they seem. Nor are they any different."
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I first played GTA about a year ago and will say that I was shocked at how violent it was. I didn't have any problems with it (since I'm 24) but couldn't imagine any parents wanting their kids to play this game. However, this does not even come close to the violence in Take-Two Interactive's (makers of GTA) new game Manhunt.
"It's a game where the only thing you do is kill everybody you see"The game starts off where you are required to kill a man by suffocating him with a plastic bag (or get killed) and gets progressively worse from there... This game was recently banned in New Zealand. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-12-12-manhunt-ban-nz_x.htm[^](I'll post this under yours seeing as you mentioned that other game.) I recently bought a copy of Manhunt based on its loose simularities to the Running Man, and whilst I haven't played it yet I am particularly looking forward to trying out the garroting wire... A handful of people bitch about games getting more voilent and more realistic, but they fail to see that that is the sole purpose of entertainment. Games that simulate a movie style experience are exactly what people want to play. It's like taking part in a Steven King story - it's barely one step up from imagination. With regards to GTA, I have been a fan from the beginning because of the level of freedom to do your own thing. I own a copy of each game for the PC, have just purchased GTA3 and GTAVC for the XBox too, and most of my friends have copies for various platforms for precisely that reason. Sure you can pick up a machette and hack an anonymous computer character's arms and head off, but you don't have to, and after the initial ten minutes of fun that alone gets very boring. The fun in these games comes from the ability to choose. From the GTA news article: "HERE'S the game's basic bit: You're a cocaine dealer, see, and you get ripped off in a drug deal that goes bad. So your mission is to get your drugs and your money back - by committing as many violent, homicidal crimes as you can possibly think up." If Mr. Byron can so magnificantly get the game's 'basic bit' wrong, how can he expect to pass fair judgement on it? Do you know, not once have I ever thought of an experience in a GTA city as being in any way more real than the killing hundreds of terrorists in games like Rainbow Six or Delta Force - but do you know what, they never make bad press... there you are only killing bad people. :|
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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For a reasoned and well balanced argument don't look here http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm[^] Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. And a quick trip away from reality "People, this is insane. This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy" Errm no sorry not even close. pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars
Its exactly the same as scary/violent films.... You don't like it, you don't buy it In the end its only a frigging game and if you are likely to be offended/influenced by it then what are you doing buying it? It has an age warning on the packet for a reason. Plus, what Michael Jackson allegedly does is in what we like to call real life, not a computer game. Some people just don't know what that is.
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman blog.nonny.com [^]
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(I'll post this under yours seeing as you mentioned that other game.) I recently bought a copy of Manhunt based on its loose simularities to the Running Man, and whilst I haven't played it yet I am particularly looking forward to trying out the garroting wire... A handful of people bitch about games getting more voilent and more realistic, but they fail to see that that is the sole purpose of entertainment. Games that simulate a movie style experience are exactly what people want to play. It's like taking part in a Steven King story - it's barely one step up from imagination. With regards to GTA, I have been a fan from the beginning because of the level of freedom to do your own thing. I own a copy of each game for the PC, have just purchased GTA3 and GTAVC for the XBox too, and most of my friends have copies for various platforms for precisely that reason. Sure you can pick up a machette and hack an anonymous computer character's arms and head off, but you don't have to, and after the initial ten minutes of fun that alone gets very boring. The fun in these games comes from the ability to choose. From the GTA news article: "HERE'S the game's basic bit: You're a cocaine dealer, see, and you get ripped off in a drug deal that goes bad. So your mission is to get your drugs and your money back - by committing as many violent, homicidal crimes as you can possibly think up." If Mr. Byron can so magnificantly get the game's 'basic bit' wrong, how can he expect to pass fair judgement on it? Do you know, not once have I ever thought of an experience in a GTA city as being in any way more real than the killing hundreds of terrorists in games like Rainbow Six or Delta Force - but do you know what, they never make bad press... there you are only killing bad people. :|
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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yikes.. what a biased look at the game :omg: What about this part: "Out of that company is spewing the glorification of mass murder and the celebration of death. And the fact that the game supposedly can't be sold to anyone under 17 years of age is completely irrelevant and changes nothing. FOR one thing, the age cutoff is totally unenforceable, and everyone knows it. And cases surface constantly in which "Grand Theft Auto" has been linked to violence and killing. In Tennessee last summer a motorist was killed and his passenger wounded when two boys - aged 14 and 16 - played "Grand Theft Auto" and then decided to go out and take sniper shots at cars, just like in the game." I suppose we better forbid GTA as well as any other game where you by accident or not can, in any way, harm someone. Like Pacman (them poor ghosts..), Transport tycoon (you can actually destroy entire citys there), etc. etc. So all we can play is... let me se.. ehh... Freecell, Hearts, Minesweeper.. cool. And while we're at it. Lets forbid books and movies with the slightest hint of violence. That includes most of the Disney cartoons as most of them include someone getting hit with a hammer the size of a bus or something alike. And not to mention - CNN, BBC news et. al. would have to shut down as they transmit too much violence. That would probably also include The New York Post. And BAM - our poor fellow, CHRISTOPHER BYRON - writer of the mentioned article - would be without a job. Sorry Christopher, but to semi-quote you: Bottom line: Stay away from this stock (Take-TwoNew York Post) - far, far away - and you'll be doing both your wallet and your fellow man a favor. Happy New Year. Heh.... Besides. When will Chris Sawyer come up with a new version of Transport Tycoon. That was the "most awesomest game, ever". Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
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Jan R Hansen wrote: So all we can play is... let me se.. ehh... Freecell, Hearts, Minesweeper.. cool Won't somebody think of the mines?!?!? -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
:laugh: I admit I probably found it funnier because when I was reading the post above I thought "what about the mines? You B(*)*))". pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars
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pseudonym67 wrote: Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of the game :-) BUt GTA is interesting in the respect that it is one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass" - the player can choose what they want to do - "good" things (pizza delivery, ambulance, police missions) or "bad" things (drive-bys, theft, etc) More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
Ian Darling wrote: BUt GTA is interesting in the respect that it is one of the first computer games to have any sort of "moral compass" - the player can choose what they want to do - "good" things (pizza delivery, ambulance, police missions) or "bad" things (drive-bys, theft, etc) More recent games (released or in development) actually take this into account and alter the game's plot according to the moral choices made (True Crime:Streets of LA and Fable spring to mind). That's one of the things that got me the one about going with the hooker and then killing her shows up time and time again in the complaints. It was news to me when people started going on about it because the idea of doing it had simply never occurred to me. Which probably means I'm either a really nice person or I just like hookers. :) I didn't know true crime worked like that. Is it any good? But I'm really looking forward to Fable coming out. That's already on my buy on the day of release schedule even if i have to go and visit a few hookers first to get some money. :-D pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars
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Well at least you didn't play the "look at Dave, he is a model person" card... :~
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
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Its exactly the same as scary/violent films.... You don't like it, you don't buy it In the end its only a frigging game and if you are likely to be offended/influenced by it then what are you doing buying it? It has an age warning on the packet for a reason. Plus, what Michael Jackson allegedly does is in what we like to call real life, not a computer game. Some people just don't know what that is.
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman blog.nonny.com [^]
Just what I was thinking. The idiots that complain like this are the same idiots that go into computer stores to buy GTA for 10 year old Johnny cos little Johhny can't buy it himself as it has an 18 certificate. Then they complain it's too violent..... I see them in game shops all the time and the staff say "is this for someone under 18", it's not like they don't KNOW it's an 18! Why do all the sensible people have to suffer because there are so many stupid people out there?
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yikes.. what a biased look at the game :omg: What about this part: "Out of that company is spewing the glorification of mass murder and the celebration of death. And the fact that the game supposedly can't be sold to anyone under 17 years of age is completely irrelevant and changes nothing. FOR one thing, the age cutoff is totally unenforceable, and everyone knows it. And cases surface constantly in which "Grand Theft Auto" has been linked to violence and killing. In Tennessee last summer a motorist was killed and his passenger wounded when two boys - aged 14 and 16 - played "Grand Theft Auto" and then decided to go out and take sniper shots at cars, just like in the game." I suppose we better forbid GTA as well as any other game where you by accident or not can, in any way, harm someone. Like Pacman (them poor ghosts..), Transport tycoon (you can actually destroy entire citys there), etc. etc. So all we can play is... let me se.. ehh... Freecell, Hearts, Minesweeper.. cool. And while we're at it. Lets forbid books and movies with the slightest hint of violence. That includes most of the Disney cartoons as most of them include someone getting hit with a hammer the size of a bus or something alike. And not to mention - CNN, BBC news et. al. would have to shut down as they transmit too much violence. That would probably also include The New York Post. And BAM - our poor fellow, CHRISTOPHER BYRON - writer of the mentioned article - would be without a job. Sorry Christopher, but to semi-quote you: Bottom line: Stay away from this stock (Take-TwoNew York Post) - far, far away - and you'll be doing both your wallet and your fellow man a favor. Happy New Year. Heh.... Besides. When will Chris Sawyer come up with a new version of Transport Tycoon. That was the "most awesomest game, ever". Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
Ban Chess too. Its the cause behind all wars ;-)
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Just what I was thinking. The idiots that complain like this are the same idiots that go into computer stores to buy GTA for 10 year old Johnny cos little Johhny can't buy it himself as it has an 18 certificate. Then they complain it's too violent..... I see them in game shops all the time and the staff say "is this for someone under 18", it's not like they don't KNOW it's an 18! Why do all the sensible people have to suffer because there are so many stupid people out there?
As quoted in an old Red Dwarf episode. "Like german tourists, the stupid are everywhere." Seems appropriate here.
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman blog.nonny.com [^]
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Well at least you didn't play the "look at Dave, he is a model person" card... :~
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Putting the laughter back into slaughter
David Wulff wrote: he is a model person I read that as modal :rolleyes: BW CP Member Homepages
I want to rock your gypsy soul Just like way back in the days of old Then magnificently we will float into the mystic
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David Wulff wrote: he is a model person I read that as modal :rolleyes: BW CP Member Homepages
I want to rock your gypsy soul Just like way back in the days of old Then magnificently we will float into the mystic
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Ban Chess too. Its the cause behind all wars ;-)
Ranjan Banerji wrote: Ban Chess too. Its the cause behind all wars Isn't that the essential difference between GTA and Chess - in Chess, the violence is abstract, and the terminology ("taking a piece", "checkmate", etc) is not particularly agressive. In GTA, the violence is obvious, and the terminology ("Kill the Haitians", "I'm going to kill that ****", etc), is highly agressive. But the difference is in the scale of violence and language, and nothing else. Surely games like Total War (which also forms the basis of a BBC program, Time Commanders) are Chess with the violence turned from the abstract to the obvious? I also seem to recall a film or TV program where the Emperor-guy played chess with live people, and they got cut down and killed when pieces were taken by another piece (also - remember Battlechess on the PC? :-)). At that point, the difference between the games is less significant. GTA, like most games, is about competition and superiority against others, and overcoming the challenges presented to yourself. Chess is no different in that respect. What the outcry is over GTA really is; that it lampoons and makes use of the "culture of violence" we have in such an effective manner. We're surrounded by violence - our politics are about confrontational rhetoric - our news media shows little but war and does nothing but try to induce fear - our TV shows rely on arguments and conflict between peoples or races to be interesting (soap operas, reality shows, Star Trek, etc) - everything about our culture seems to be related to competition and/or conflict in some way - sports, jobs, road rage, music/film/book charts, game shows, class wars. We are competing and conflicting just about every day of our lives - yet a fictional and virtual representation of what happens every day is being lambasted? Something isn't right here. Our games companies shouldn't be criticised for engaging and contributing to an existing violent culture - we should be examining ourselves, and wondering why we have that culture in the first place.... -- -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
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For a reasoned and well balanced argument don't look here http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292003/business/14640.htm[^] Quick sample "You can kill a cop, steal his gun, and then use it to shoot someone else. Or you can pick up a prostitute and have sex with her in the back of your stolen car, then beat her to death - or shoot her, bludgeon her, whatever you want." Err you can yeah. But you don't have to. And a quick trip away from reality "People, this is insane. This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy" Errm no sorry not even close. pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars
come to think of it... how is it you can have sex with a prostitute in GTA ? I only recall that they get into your car if you stop next to them. :) Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
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come to think of it... how is it you can have sex with a prostitute in GTA ? I only recall that they get into your car if you stop next to them. :) Do you know why it's important to make fast decisions? Because you give yourself more time to correct your mistakes, when you find out that you made the wrong one. Chris Meech on deciding whether to go to his daughters graduation or a Neil Young concert
Jan R Hansen wrote: I only recall that they get into your car if you stop next to them. If you drive them to a quiet spot the car starts bouncing up and down for a while and your health improves. So they are either having sex or pogoing for health on the back seat. pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here Fuzzy Dot Net Articles 1-4 Start Here PathFinder Game Of Life 2 Life Wars