Hey Daniel. I really appreciate and respect your opinions. Please don't take my feedback as negative or self-righteous. I truly want to hear other peoples opinions and learn from them. I like to think my opinions are flexible and that I am still learning. So... Daniel Turini wrote: It’s hard to innovate and still keep on budget and schedule. Maybe sometimes, but innovation and process are not mutually exclusive. For me at least, I find innovation easier during the design phase. Sure, I throw allot of code around, try lots of things, but when that is done, I return to the structure and figure out the rest. All that code created at 2AM I prefer to throw away. Besides, after writing it the first time, the second time is 10x easier and the reesults are better. On one point related to CMM, I have to agree with you: detailed design documents. I have had many people tell me that a detailed design document is important, but this is one thing I have found that absolutely does stifle innovation. After having been told by several respected people how important detailed design documents are, I tried it on a few projects and found it crippled innovation. Architectural design, though, seems to help. Daniel Turini wrote: If you are creating yet another CRUD database application, I believe that CMM guidelines may fit well Absolutely. As I said before CMM isn't for everything, but is for allot of corporate projects. Hmmm... I wonder how much of our differences arrises from our work environments? I develop internal corporate mostly, I suspect that you work for a software house or run your own company?? The dynamic is different (I worked for a consultant firm for several years, so I remember.) Daniel Turini wrote: the “hero” or the “cowboy style” is still useful. Absolutely, just make sure there is some type of quality control in place. A good programmer will only be sharpened by the process, not dulled by it. (So long as the process isn't smothering.) Daniel Turini wrote: I think that software is a creative process That's the only reason I stay in it myself. Anyway, thanks for your viewpoint. Matt Gullett