Everything being considered to be "premium content" is met by those restrictions. I'm pretty sure Microsoft is getting a lot of money from media industry to bow the knee this way and is happy to strengthen it's monopol further on this way. Hardware manufacturers are stupid enough to do the very same while ignoring customer's need. They dig their own grave with it. Let's wait and see what happens when more normal customers (users) get aware of those restrictions. Currently only few technicians are really aware of what those restrictions mean.

You are using a digital or an analog connector to your monitor?

Vega02 wrote:

diriproject wrote: Especially for this user group it's far better to stay with XP or a Mac or Linux because DRM included in Vista is pure catastrophe. I already mentioned this, but you're right about the DRM. The amount of DRM forced into the system sucks. But the media industries have mandated that if you want to enjoy HD content, these are the hoops that you have to jump through. I'd bet that future versions of Mac OSX will also have these blocks built in, unfortunately.

You are right in relation to MacOS. Even Linux will need to support DRM because there will be no hardware available without it. And it does not only meet HD content. Even stupid CD / DVD drives are met: You can change region code only five times, activation of device is first change of setting. I only know few people met by this restrictions (engineers having to work all around the world for longer time) but, this is simply illegal. It's like buying a car and only be allowed to drive specific streets x times.

Vega02 wrote:

Were you referring to HDMI, perhaps?

Yes, I do. High quality output is not permitted as long as there is nothing to fullfill requirenments of most strict set of rules of DRM. Manufacturers of addons for computers will have no real chance further on without pushing prices up. Such "marketing" is nothing than a way to get a monopol. I doubt it being legal even in U.S.A.. I know it is illegal in several european countries at least but, who cares? :mad:

> For home users with elaborate entertainment setups, the HD and > media center additions to the operating system are certainly > worth looking into. Especially for this user group it's far better to stay with XP or a Mac or Linux because DRM included in Vista is pure catastrophe. Ever tried to plug in a good video card and use a very good monitor like you can do with XP? Give it a try and tell us what happens, please.

When you order an english version it's your task. And: It's not task of customer to learn a foreign language to be able to read a license. This decision is made by highest courts since many years. And: Neither I nor you nor any customer is a monetary institute and in no way obliged to buy something first but to run for the money afterwards to get a refund only. And: According multiple highest courts in Europe no customer is bound to restrictions due to licenses when not being readable before buying something. No customer is obliged to search somewhere for a license because chance of existance of such a beast when product is directly in front of him. That's reason for many manufacturers who deliver via direct download: You must read license and agree before you get it. If Microsoft does not like this unbound status they should stop selling their products in boxes or as bundles with computers or change something. JFI: I could sell such boxes and know about efforts to get exchange and ... I sell my own software. I want to get my money as well and must be very familiar with licenses and related laws for this. In most cases Microsoft has simply nothing more than bugs or new (incompatible) versions of operating system in it's hands to stop usage of a product longer than support is provided without validation.

Jochen_Muenchen wrote:

diriproject wrote: Opening a box forces you to buy it. does not apply to software (at least from Microsoft). "You must accept the enclosed License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly return the product for a refund. A copy of the product License Agreement ia available for review at www.microsoft.com/office/eula. ..." Outside of box for Visio standard. Maybe you should first lok at the boxes before you buy them.

When it's sold in Germany this license is invalid for not being in German language. From Visual Studio 6 Enterprise Edition: "Sie müssen den Bestimmungen des beiliegenden Linzenzvertrags ..." I could quote many more sentences like this because I hold licenses of many MS products since Windows 1.0. Nevertheless I'm not bound to them because I have never been able to read them with product in front of me before buying it. You may ask whichever dealer about broken pakets and selling them ... ;)

Jochen_Muenchen wrote:

diriproject wrote: No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time. They also do not pay you for the time that you need to get to the shop or the cost of driving there.

Oh, I am already in shop (take the one with a planet's name as example) and see this interesting product there. I want to buy it now because the box looks so funny and description sounds promissing. I take it, pay and go away with it. And there we are: License included in closed box is void. You see: It's like buying anything else. When bought product is software it doesn't make any difference in law - it's a product. Be happy about this! OTOH you can be one of ten persons being interested in such a product. Each person opens a box in the shop before spending money. What happens than?

Jochen_Muenchen wrote:

diriproject wrote: According current practice you are wrong. Such a license has to be readable before somebody pays. sure. Go to the web and download a copy.

No need for because they neither pay my internet access nor my time. I enter a shop, take a box, pay and have it. And, I'm pretty sure you are aware of the sentence: Opening a box forces you to buy it.

Jochen_Muenchen wrote:

diriproject wrote: do not have a rental contract or a usage contract when I buy a box. I buy the number of boxes including the product and can do with it whatever I want to do. It is the very same like buying a car or a building. no. The box says that you are bound to the agreement that comes with the box. If you don't like the agreement you can return the box and get a refund.

According current practice you are wrong. Such a license has to be readable before somebody pays. Therefor such licenses are void. Most worst case in this relation is to have license available after installation and no second befor.

Forgot to mention: Some years ago Microsoft has been sued in Germany for their behaviour in relation of OEM and full versions of products. As a result each customer getting a OEM version can exchange it to a full version for free when he wants to get it. To avoid this manufacturers selling bundles print "OEM" in very thick letters on their boxes. Do some digging and you'll find it.

I do not have a rental contract or a usage contract when I buy a box. I buy the number of boxes including the product and can do with it whatever I want to do. It is the very same like buying a car or a building. Be aware that I don't say it's allowed to give copies away (one license - one usage). btw: You aren't the spokesperson of MS in Munic? Memory doesn't serve well but, your name sounds very familiar in this relation.

Do they pay me to visit those tradeshows or send those CDs after each patchday for free? Remark: At last patchday they fixed some issues being introduced at patchday before.

???? Put your car into you neightbour's garage. When you want to drive afterwards you have to get a new key because of this. That's ok for you???? When I pay for something it's mine. It's never the task of manufacturer to tell me what to do with this product. I can buy a software and use it or push it into trash. Who cares?

Do they send me fixes for free than? I don't get rid of impression that some decission makers are not aware how many people on earth have no broadband available but a modem as well as those people have to pay for time being online in internet.

Jochen, when you move XP or higher this way you have to re-activate your product normally. Put your car into another garage and you have to ask manufacturer about a new key because of this move. That's the very same. You still defeat MS for such behaviour?

Every law related to ownership. You buy a car, a building, a book, a computer, software, ... Renting something needs a special contract. This must be signed before you open the box. -- modified at 6:25 Monday 16th October, 2006 To give you a better impression: You buy a car and afterwards you are told to not to be allowed to drive left at any crossing. Microsoft tries the very same in relation to their software.

Microsoft's licenses are simply illegal. You give money for a product therefor you own your exemplar. You can do with it whatever you want to do. You did not rent it, you bought it. It's yours. Compare it with a car: You can do some modding with it, you can change this and that as long as all parts used are allowed by law. I hope EU will charge MS with some billions for such licenses because the break almost every european law with it.