There are lot of stuff about it on teh interwebs: http://www.udidahan.com/2007/03/30/entity-framework-disconnected-problems-solutions/[^] http://oakleafblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/operation-and-entity-framework.html[^] etc. etc.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Well Devforce is actually the one I haven't used, so I can't really comment on it, other than I will definitely try it out sometime. My experience with these kinds of product do me leave me very skeptical though I must say :laugh: :laugh:

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

I have not yet used an ORM that plays nicely with web applications. The problem isn't the presentation technology per se, but the fact that web development is stateless which introduces a heap of problems with sessions, object tracking etc. For example, Entity Framework v1 was totally unusable with any form of disconnected scenarios (and thus web development). The same goes for L2S. You could shoe-horn these into a web development project, for example to use L2S in a disconnected scenario you could simply delete all entity relations and manage it all manually, but then what is the point?

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

After having tried most of them, I have come to the conclusion that I am better off with stored procedures (of cours SP are also well suited with these ORMs) together with a home tailored data layer. The problems I have experienced are: *The time saved by using ORMs instead of writing your own layer, is in the long run near zero since you run into all kinds of issues with ORMs that needs tweeking *Performance issues caused by bloated object layer *Performance issues with generated SQL *Very, and I mean very, bad suitability with web apps (which is what I do) If I were doing a desk top app that needs data access, I would seriously consider using a ORM (preferably Project Castle´s ActiveRecords or SubSonic). For web development? Forget it. Too many headaches, and too much time spend on nothing - time that is better spend on writing SPs and a simple data access layer. Of course, this is all IMHO :)

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Simple Inheritance wrote:

Nevertheless, although a chilly pain since its inception due to the asinian lack of librairies,

Agreed. The lack of some sort of standardized libraries is incomprehensible. .NET and Java puts so many tools in the developer's hand while C++ only has STL to offer and vertor isn't all it's made up to be.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Agreed. Qt is better. And WTL even better (for minor apps).

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

I am looking for a good, and espcially customizable, store I can integrate with an ASP.NET application. What good products are there out there?

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Friends is awesome - I like as well. Haven't seen it in a while tho' since it ended quite some time ago.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Thanks, looks interesting. I'll check out...

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

That is a very nice article - thanks for the link.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Thanks, I'll check out the Danny Simmons stuff.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Some time ago I had a post in the Lounge about how much I liked Entity Framework etc. etc. Yadda yadda. Crapola. For the future I'll wait until I've had some real world experience before praising some technology. Because after trying to use the Entity Framework in a real world app, I must admit that The Entity Framework v. 1 s.... big fat hairy monkey .....! I am so baffled that Microsoft, in this day and age, releases an ORM tool that has no built-in support for n-Tier development. I just cannot fathom it. Oh yes, the Entity Framework is great if you're developing a monolithic desk top app. But come on, this is 2009. I don't wanna baby sit change tracking - that's what the framework should be doing for me. Seriously, I'm back to manual DAL layer with DataReaders. Perhaps I'll use some code gen tool (or write my own), but I'll sure as hell not use the Entity Framework. The amount of plumbing code needed to get it to work properly in a disconnected, n-Tier, web service world is ridiculous. 1994 called and they want their technology back. Maybe scottgu should take a look/stab at it?

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

I hate it, hate it , hate it. After the redesign it won't remember my language settings - so whenever I go to a new page I get VB code as well as C# - no matter how many times I change the language settings. Makes me crazy.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

It is because composition is a big part of WPF. Between a WPF label's opening and closing tag you can have not only text but any content like images etc. Therefore a property name of Content makes more sense.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

I'd give Wicket a go - it's a Java web framework but don't hold that against it, it looks very interesting.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

When you say DOS what do you mean? Do you mean the actual Disk Operating System from Microsoft? Or do you just mean using the command prompt from Windows? That is to very different things.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Perhaps a MFC rewrite?

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

Exactly. I have used NHibernate as well, and it really is quite powerful and flexible. No matter what O/R-Mapper one uses the productivity gain can be quite big. Time one can spend on the domain modeling instead.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

I don't mind writing SQL per se. But I do feel much more productive with LINQ. And I'm tired of writing boilerplate DAL code. But each to his own :):)

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

No I did not. Was my post unclear? I meant the Entity Framework.

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand