Thank you Joe, your post was great. Here's some great stuff from CNN now: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/arctic.refuge.drill.ap/index.html[^] Oh no.... I'm SURE the war in Iraq has nothing to do with getting this approved. I'm sure the hikes in gas prices recently has NOTHING to do with all of this, either. I'm sure Saddam sitting on 7% of all the oil in the world has NOTHING to do with this. It has NOTHING to do with oil... no no no... it's ALL about terrorism. Yep, that's it. Terrorists. Damn those A-rabs! Gotta defend Americans from those across the globe! People that ignore these irrefutable connections are simply blind.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

LOL, a site with a mailing address of Washington, DC. That is too funny. All articles on that site conveniently leave out the civilian casualties as a result of Gulf War I, and the horrible after-effects of that unprecedented bombing that continue to this day. I'm sure with that kind of logic you'd support bombing nearly all of Africa now, too. After all, the human rights violations that have been going on there for decades... nay centuries... have extolled a tremendous price on their civilians. http://www.rnw.nl/humanrights/html/violations.html[^] http://hrw.org/reports/2003/sierraleone/sierleon0103-05.htm#P302_34890[^] http://www.hrw.org/wr2k3/africa7.html[^] Chaos in Eastern Congo: U.N. Action Needed Now[^] Would you support a war to go in and help these people? No need to think too long about that... there isn't anything of material or political value down there, so Bush won't bother. Just one of those hypothetical questions you can ponder while supporting Bush's plan to bomb Iraq with or without U.N. consent.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Jason Henderson wrote: ...and that would take a lot of shells. We dropped more bombs in Gulf War I than in the Korean and Vietnam wars combined. The U.S. had a massive build-up of weaponry throughout the cold war, all to "one up" the Soviets if WW3 ever were to come about. In 1989 all of that changed. What to do with all these bombs, and how do the defense contractors keep earning their riches off taxpayer money now that we've run out of excuses to keep building bombs? Simple: find a new enemy. One that provides an excuse for dropping an insane amount of ordnance, so they can show off their cool "smart bomb" technology. Control over all of that oil and the need for a new enemy was just too delicious for Bush to resist. Allow Saddam to run over Kuwait by looking the other way. Make up some stories about how the Iraqi military is raping and brutally murdering innocent Kuwaiti civilians. Try to forget about the Kurds that Saddam gassed on his own soil... that was okay when Bush and Saddam were allies. Get the American people to support a war and support spending money on more defense. Then bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, show off your tech on CNN. Shock the hell out of Saddam, hoping he gets the picture... don't mess with Bush! Whoops, the war was far too easy. Guess they overestimated the strength of Iraq's army. Didn't expect them to cave in quite so easily. Couldn't just run in there and nuke them all while they're trying to surrender. Well, that's not entirely true. They did kill hundreds of Iraqi troops trying to retreat and get out of Kuwait. So, what to do when your enemy is not up to the challenge of a "decent war?" Pull out, throw down some sanctions, go back home and build some more bombs, this time with newer tech funded by the taxpayers. Leave Saddam in power so we can come back and do it all over again in a couple years. After all, if you yank him out in 1991 and install a democracy, what evil dictator could take his place? Whoops, didn't get re-elected. DAMN that Ross Perot! That threw the entire plan out the window. Saddam plots assassination attempt on Daddy Bush. Okay, now it's really personal!! Get two sons into politics. 1996 is too early, plan to buy the 2000 election with either Shrubya or Jethro. Shrubya gets the nod. Steal the election by the narrowest of margins. Okay, Bush is back in power. Time to make up for all that lost time. Bomb Iraq right away, within a month of inauguration. Show him his days a

Hey, thanks!     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Can I imply that you're accepting the other 34 items? Here are some sources. Undoubtedly, you'll refute them all as conspiracy theory quacks. Just read them. I did a quick Google search and found these. Some are highly reputable, and have nothing to do with politics or conspiracy. Just concerned organizations noting the dramatic increase of cancer rates in Iraqi people since Gulf War I. Depleted Uraniam shells[^] Rise in Iraqi cancer rates since Gulf War I[^] Economic sanctions and public health: the case of Iraq[^] Faulty Justifications for War with Iraq[^] Iraqi cancers offer clues to Gulf War Syndrome[^] Delegation to end all sanctions against Iraq[^] Depleted Uranium information in the Lancet[^] Here are some related to the war crimes during Gulf War I: More facts out on U.S. slaughter in Gulf[^] What the U.S. Bombs Have Done to the People of Iraq[^]     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Ooh, this looks just like the last time you replied. Except of course you bracketed it with <flamebait> this go 'round. So here's how we proceed... correct me where I'm wrong. I respond with a witty retort. You up the ante and respond with double the insults, all the while feigning interest in the actual topic, and attempt to further instigate a proper response at the level in which you dwell. I do so, and upon reading it, you take your ball and go home, somehow feeling good about yourself. That about right? Class is out today, just my luck. Here's a truce. You need not ever reply to another one of my threads. It is apparent that we are both completely intractable in our positions and any non-constructive responses (like these) are without merit and merely a distraction. In doing so, I will never reply to one of your threads. Seeing how you are without value on this planet and merely a drain on our oxygen supply, this will not be a difficult assignment for me. I am not sure the same can be said for you, as it seems any post that provides a platform for self-promotion and fuel for your abusive nature is far too tempting to resist. I will start my end of the bargain now.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Selling The Iraq War To The U.S.[^]     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

My contributions for the day: Take the war on Iraq IQ test[^] House Majority Leader Tom DeLay called Democratic opponents of war in Iraq "reckless." [^] U.S. threatens to eliminate independent war journalists during upcoming war on Iraq[^]     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

#if _MSC_VER     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Yep, 12... that's it. I'm a whining, ranting 12-year-old that need therapy, and YOU'RE mad at me. Go figure.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Click HERE... no HERE.... over HERE!![^] If you don't want to read rants, stop fucking reading the "off-topic rants" board, dumbass. Jesus.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Thanks for reminding me. I'll put that down on my ToDo list right below "World Peace."     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Translation: "I don't know where the hell North Korea is, but I guess those other countries nearby had better start watching their backs! All those slant-eyed countries over there in Asiastan. Now I's got to go and gets me some oil. Jesus told me it was the right thang to do!"     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/030303.asp[^] Well, I feel so much better now.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/030603.asp[^] For those of us who didn't bother to listen to the fucking idiot.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

"They want to control Social Security, like it's some kind of government program." - GWB     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Stan Shannon wrote: Any one who disagrees with me must be a NAZI." Read that again. I asked... do you empathize with the Nazis? I didn't ask "are you a Nazi?" They are distinct questions, and somehow you turned it into that. Stan Shannon wrote: But we have never done that and we are not doing that now. Hello? Vietnam? Korea? Manifest destiny? What were you doing during History class? Here's some history for you on America using force to push its will. Teddy Roosevelt took control of Panama via force to build the canal. Sent a battleship and marines. Why? So his grand Navy could travel from coast to coast without having to go around South America. He wanted it done, he made it happen, and it was so. Manifest destiny. We wanted all of the land, from sea to shining sea. Push the Native Americans out. Send Union troops to massacre them... destroy their villages... break them apart at the seams. We did so, we took control of all the land, the Native Americans have nothing but poverty-riddled reservations. I don't think I have to explain Vietnam and Korea... Stan Shannon wrote: I also think that the Iraqi people will be better off free of Saddam's rule. Amen. Do you think it's okay to kill thousands of them to get at Saddam? Do you concede the massive amount of civilian killings that will happen as just "acceptable collateral damage?" Do you think they are willing to accept death in order to eradicate him? That it's okay to destroy their public facilities, just to turn around and rebuild them? I have to believe there's a better way. If the most powerful military and intelligence agency in the world can't get at one man, what does that speak for their abilities? I have to think they're going after something more. It's not just about removing one man. It's about controlling the land for oil, and for that they need to completely dominate the entire country... put people into submission, put a U.S. general at the helm. A military state. Sounds like fun to me! The CIA had a covert team in place during the Gulf War, deep inside Saddam's regime. They could have taken him out then. Why didn't they? They pulled out, cut off funding, let those Iraqi members out in the cold. What happened, what were the reasons? I'd like to find out. Our foreign policy is not about protecting the innocent, and giving them freedom. World aggression is fine if it's in U.S. interests.

Alvaro Mendez wrote: If this were such a deplorable place to live, I think many would be leaving instead of coming, but alas, you're staying. You're completely missing the point. I never said this was a deplorable place to live. I'm saying the leaders of this country are deplorable, as are their tactics for pushing their agenda. I'm fighting to try and restore the reasons for WHY immigrants across the globe want to come live here. You do realize that since 9/11 our freedoms in America have slowly but surely been receding? That the government is actively withholding and sealing information related to both national and world affairs? Documents that should be made public, the Bush administration is securing for "reasons of national security." Bullsh!t. Here's an excerpt from that article you posted: "Americans are so good, so fair and so understanding. They are anything but quick to generalize and stereotype – even when doing so would clearly be in their best interest." Just read this post here on CP, and you'll quickly realize how wrong and blind that statement is: http://www.codeproject.com/script/comments/forums.asp?msg=437397&forumid=2605#xx437253xx[^] I'll say no more. Alvaro Mendez wrote: It's true, Bush Sr. should have eliminated Saddam back in Dessert Storm and taken all that wonderful oil you say we're after. I guess we didn't want his oil back then and now all of the sudden we do. Sure. We wanted his oil back then. But mostly, we wanted him out of Kuwait, which has the Bush family friends and the oil we wanted control over. Since Saddam was a partner of Daddy Bush during the 80s, they dropped the plan to force him out of Iraq and gave him another chance. Sanctions, U.N. resolutions... it's like grounding your kid. We whooped his ass so completely in the Gulf War they almost felt sorry for the poor bastard. Now that Saddam has had 10 years to rear up again, but hasn't shown he's willing to bow to the Bush clan, and even going so far as threatening to expose his entire sordid relationship with the U.S. to the world, it's time to extend our grab and take all of Iraq. "He's had too many chances" is what Bush is saying. And apparently he really means it (this time.)

Question for you. Do you empathize with the Nazis from Germany in the 1930s? Do you agree with their stance of a "superior race" and that all others are inferior, and deserve to be eliminated? From your posts, I have a feeling you lean that way. I have no objection to you feeling exactly the way you want to feel, in private. I could care less. Be arrogant, egotistical, anything you want to be. Our constitution protects your rights. I object to using American military troops and financing to push your views and agenda on the rest of the world, killing innocent civilians across the globe, and not care one iota about doing so. Because you're arrogant and proud of it, and "fu*k the rest of the world, I could care less about their backwards piece of sh!t country." THAT is the bone of my contention. There are nearly 6 billion people in the world. Only 300 million here in the U.S. Keep pissing them all off, and sooner or later you'll get it in the end, just as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan did. The only problem now is that no other countries or regimes have the balls to stand up to the U.S. with military force... they just wave their little U.N. veto cards around. Whoopee! Like that's going to stop Bush.     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein

Anonymous wrote: As 'self-defense'. So then would you condone violence against others who are certain to harm you? Yes. You only live once, and being dead surely can't help the cause, can it? Unlike these terrorists, I don't believe in an after life, so this is the only shot I've got. We are animalistic in nature, so yes I will defend myself when my life is threatened. I have not ever had to use violence in a defensive mode thus far in my life, except maybe those times in high school when my girl was insulted :laugh: I guess you could stretch and twist my statement into using violence as a tool, simply by means of keeping myself alive. I guess that means if Ghandi ever used a knife to cut his salad, which helped him stave off hunger/death, which helped him stay alive, which helped him further his cause, then one could say that even Ghandi, by using a tool that could also be used for violence, in effect used violence to further his cause by brutally chopping up those leaves of lettuce. How far do you want to take that conversation?     Ty

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -Albert Einstein