thanks thats a good explanation. i used this in years past and didnt have to worry about mobile browsers or resizing much; fitting and floating... well i still wish to have a snapshot of what the browser will "think" about the resulting program like that mode in Word where you turn on the hidden characters. i read about Microsoft folks saying in 2010 or 2011 how they will have a design view soon; i just cannot fathom why its so hard. i do think about things from win forms or labview styling. but your comment helped