Trollslayer wrote: From what I've heard, the dispute has arisen because a deal which was supposed to keep firefighters pay in line with police officers pay has not been kept. There never has been any deal, nor has there been any parity between fire and police pay in 50 years. The fire service have always felt themselves hard-done-by in comparison to other services. You can check out the history of the various disputes, albeit a very one-sided viewpoint, at http://www.fireservice.co.uk/pay001.php[^]. Never let it be said that I don't read both sides of the argument before bitching about someone ;P Trollslayer wrote: Also, what are the comparitive casualty figures ? I've been trying to find this out for weeks. The figures are surprisingly elusive (probably because neither one is as dangerous as they like us to think) so anything I say here is speculation. My instinct says that it's very police-heavy. You don't honestly hear of many casualties in either department since way back in the strikes of the early 80s, but you do occasionally hear of police being killed in riots or particularly bad situations that go wrong, I don't remember the last time I heard of a fireman being killed in any incident. Sure, when something like 9-11 happens, the fire department becomes a very dangerous career decision. But then when something like 9-11 happens, so does working in a nice quiet office on the 95th floor. I'm not trying to dismiss what the fire department do, they deserve more than an average wage and they get it (their lowest wage, according to their web page, is marginally above the national average wage). But the fact remains that a manual labourer in any industry does not get as much as a skilled worker, so they're wrong to ask for it. A 4% rise is double inflation, it's better than they were going to get, they should take it and push for a double-inflation raise guaranteed over the next five years, not get stroppy because they're not getting 20 times the rate of inflation. Paul Why don't you take a good look at yourself and describe what you see - Led Zeppelin, Misty Mountain Hop