The Wonder of Shari'a

Adnan Siddiqi

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

Whether it is or not its despicable and barbaric.

here you ain`t sure about shariah

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

and sharia seems to fail at least two of those tests.

here you are putting your point of view about shariah so what message are you trying to give your readers?that you know Shariah or you just making statments like kgaddy who always trolls bout islam?

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

here you ain`t sure about shariah

No, I merely don't know enough about Iranian so called "Law" to know how close it is to shariah. What I do know is that it is brutal, unjust and vicious.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

here you are putting your point of view about shariah so what message are you trying to give your readers?that you know Shariah or you just making statments like kgaddy who always trolls bout islam?

I don't need to troll hun. You of all people should know that. For what its worth, if shariah were a just law committed to absolute equality and freedom of expression on all fronts for all people - regardless of gender, race, Faith or sexual orientation - I would consider it potentially just. However I get the impression from yourself, othrs and many news reports that it is anything but. That is why I believe it to be unjust, and why I will never visit a country which practices any such law. Given that I am a transsexual lesbian, is that so difficult to understand? Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

Adnan Siddiqi

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

I don't need to troll hun. You of all people should know that

yeah,thtswhy i was surprised.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

For what its worth, if shariah were a just law committed to absolute equality and freedom of expression on all fronts for all people - regardless of gender, race, Faith or sexual orientation - I would consider it potentially just.

in similar thread,after 10-15 posts,i have repleid to jorgen about shariyah.if intrested,you may check it out shariyah is english translation of "Road" and according to Islam,it means " road to guidance" you may say arabic translation of any law..like US law, EUropen law,canadian law etc... yes shariah give rights to women like divorce,working outside etc etc, you can`t blame Knife cos a man was injurted due to it,knife is a tool,it could be used to cut fruits as well as fingures,upto you:),hope you got me.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

However I get the impression from yourself

What impression??

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

why I will never visit a country which practices any such law

i dont know whether you are an american or not..just wana know tht how would u live in a country like america where govt spy on common man?is it not irritated?huh?

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

Given that I am a transsexual lesbian, is that so difficult to understand?

i dont know about lesbians but yes there are transexuals in pakistan,one of the transexual was an actoress in TV dramas and performed well in famous pakistani acton drama Dhuwan[Smoke][^] so being transexual isn`t bad in any religion,a/c to my point of view,its not in someone`s hand Being homosexual is not apprecited in any religion on earth,but again ,no religion preach to kills homosexuals,and yes there are gays and lesbians in pakistan as well.

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

in similar thread,after 10-15 posts,i have repleid to jorgen about shariyah.if intrested,you may check it out shariyah is english translation of "Road" and according to Islam,it means " road to guidance" you may say arabic translation of any law..like US law, EUropen law,canadian law etc... yes shariah give rights to women like divorce,working outside etc etc, you can`t blame Knife cos a man was injurted due to it,knife is a tool,it could be used to cut fruits as well as fingures,upto you,hope you got me.

Thanks. I'll have a read. :) If I understand you correctly, you are saying that what is termed sharia law when applied in various nations around the world (including some provinces in Pakistan, I believe) is not that, but something masquerading as it? That being the case, does true shariah law give men and women equal protection and rights under the law? (including within marriage...e.g. does a woman and her husband have the same rights, and neither is considered superior or inferior to the other?) What's your take on laws enforced in (for example) Saudi Arabia which ban women from driving and effectively force them to wear a ritualised form of dress (which surely should be a personal choice, not one mandated by law or society)?

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i dont know whether you are an american or not..just wana know tht how would u live in a country like america where govt spy on common man?is it not irritated?huh?

Not quite...I'm a Northumbrian by Birth - I come from North East England, but I've lived and worked in the South East for the past 20 years. If you know anything about us as a nation, the one thing you'll know is that we don't particularly care for authority and generally treat our governments with the contempt they earn by their actions. Governments of other nations get equally disdainful treatment too... ;P

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i dont know about lesbians but yes there are transexuals in pakistan,one of the transexual was an actoress in TV dramas and performed well in famous pakistani acton drama Dhuwan[Smoke][^] so being transexual isn`t bad in any religion,a/c to my point of view,its not in someone`s hand

Oh there are plenty of us around, alright:

TS Women's Successes: Links a

Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i say some orthodox christian who believes that Christianity is the only true religion on earth(day dreaming)

Are you claiming not to believe that Islam is the 'only true religion' ? Any religion that actually defines the path to God, immediately defines all the other options as being wrong. That's just logical. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

nope i am not,but yes i am claiming that i won`t make any such claim agasint some non-muslim that He is kafir(infidel),therefore he will go hell,we are asked not to say Infidel to non-muslims as it only God knows what is inside his heart,it has happened many times that lots of converts didnt announce it due to some circumstance around them. you wana say that religions manipulate the *path* of God?

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

you wana say that religions manipulate the *path* of God?

They distort and obsfucate it. They cannot change it. So, you don't believe that Islam is THE path to God, but rather A path to God ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

as I already mentioned,i would not publicized it

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Christian Graus

Does that mean that you do believe Islam is the true path to God, but you're ashamed to say so publically ? Why would you not want to publicise your views ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

well because not everyone here keeps same opinion like me as they are not muslims i am not ashamed,rather reserved ,my saying that "Islam is truth" rest is fake could be hurtful for non-Islamic person,that`s all and most important that,A sensible person wouldn`t believe in words of individuals like me,he or she would prefer to read source rahtering believe in someone, for instance one wouldn`t consider christianity a true religion coz u announced it here. my religion teaches me NOT to say Infidel to a non-muslim too as i am not the person who knows what is inside the heart of a person,maybe he wants to hide his belief due to certain reasons.

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

am not ashamed,rather reserved ,my saying that "Islam is truth" rest is fake could be hurtful for non-Islamic person,that`s all

I guess. Jesus said not to hide your light, so that's the advice I live by. It's not my desire to attack others, or to go out of my way to tell people they are wrong. But when asked ( as I was ), I will answer truthfully. I am not ashamed, nor am I anything less than willing to stand for what I believe.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

and most important that,A sensible person wouldn`t believe in words of individuals like me,he or she would prefer to read source rahtering believe in someone, for instance one wouldn`t consider christianity a true religion coz u announced it here.

Yes, saying something does not make it true. But it does tell you something about the person who is speaking.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

my religion teaches me NOT to say Infidel to a non-muslim

Given that a Muslim cannot be an infidel ( I assume ), this means you can't tell anyone they are an infidel ? Isn't that just someone who is not right with God ? So you have to tell everyone they are OK before God, no matter what they believe ? Wow, Islam is sounding more and more like being an Anglican. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

Christian Graus wrote:

I guess. Jesus said not to hide your light

i think jesus also said NOT to make fun of other beliefs?offocurse i am not against preaching but if i am going on road and see some non-muslim,i am not allowed to call him as "O Kafir or O Infidel" that is not permitted anyway,i am aksed to call him by his name. hope i cleared u here

Christian Graus wrote:

Yes, saying something does not make it true. But it does tell you something about the person who is speaking

that`s my point,maybe i have no clear idea of the religion and i am manipulating it and showing it as an extreeme belief,that what was done by oSama like ppl,presented islam in wrong manner which is actually not.if one really wana know about islam or any other religion,then should refer the main source like bible,quran etc.

Christian Graus wrote:

Given that a Muslim cannot be an infidel ( I assume ), this means you can't tell anyone they are an infidel ? Isn't that just someone who is not right with God ? So you have to tell everyone they are OK before God, no matter what they believe ?

here infiedel means one who rejects God or teaching of God,for muslims,iNfields means noone else but a non-muslim but as i said,its matter of how you talk to a person,and other point as i had made that i cant figure out by appearance of anyone that he is christian or a muslim,if i go church on every sunday,will I be considered a Chiristian?offcourse not,maybe i am doing coz i live in a society where muslims are in minority and there is risk to expose my current belief.

Christian Graus wrote:

So you have to tell everyone they are OK before God, no matter what they believe ?

as i said,you cant check the heart of anyone at all,noone writes name of his religion on his forehead

Christian Graus wrote:

Wow, Islam is sounding more and more like being an Anglican.

no,its rather sounding logical,its just you are not getting it

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

think jesus also said NOT to make fun of other beliefs?

You're kidding, right ?

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

hope i cleared u here

No, because I wouldn't treat anyone like that, either. I didn't expect you would, I'm just surprised you wouldn't answer a direct question that cuts to the core of what Islam means to you.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

if one really wana know about islam or any other religion,then should refer the main source like bible,quran etc.

OK, the Bible concept is definately the reverse, of God sending His people out to be His mouthpiece, and to represent Him through their words and actions.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

no,its rather sounding logical,its just you are not getting it

I'm sure it makes sense to you. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

Christian Graus wrote:

You're kidding, right ?

i am not,are you trying to give an evil impression about Jesus that He has allowed his followers to make fun of others` beliefs??

Christian Graus wrote:

No, because I wouldn't treat anyone like that, either. I didn't expect you would, I'm just surprised you wouldn't answer a direct question that cuts to the core of what Islam means to you.

which question?if u meant what i think about islam ,whether its truth or not,then as i said i would simply ignore the question,not cos i dnt have answer,just because you arleady know what i think about my own religion. if i make a statment like Islam is true religion,Jews and christians follow false God,then you would be the first one to call me a fanatic. Yes,if someone comes me and ask about Islam i would defnitatly explain him but We dont grab arms of anyone on road and tell him that "you know islam is truth rest is false",thats not sensible ,nor its allowed. as i said we dont have cncept of missionaries who gives bribe to other for convertion.

Christian Graus wrote:

OK, the Bible concept is definately the reverse, of God sending His people out to be His mouthpiece, and to represent Him through their words and actions.

i am not against it,offcourse if i say myself a muslim by mouth and follow it truly and some non-muslim like you watch me,you would surely think that this is what islam is,and history has proved that many non-muslims accepted islam due to ACTS of individuals. but wht if you encounter a person like Zaharwi of Iraq or Osama,you would certaily say YIKES and would hate islam.. Thats whyu its preferred to go and read source too,and this happens in christianity as well.

Christian Graus wrote:

I'm sure it makes sense to you.

i am sure it made sense to millions around world?not me?:)

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i am not,are you trying to give an evil impression about Jesus that He has allowed his followers to make fun of others` beliefs??

There's nothing evil about standing for truth. Jesus gave absolutely no instruction regarding respecting other people's beliefs, especially to the point of failing to correct them when they are incorrect.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

if i make a statment like Islam is true religion,Jews and christians follow false God,then you would be the first one to call me a fanatic.

No, I would accept that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all mutually exclusive of one another. If you don't choose one, you've rejected them all.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

as i said we dont have cncept of missionaries who gives bribe to other for convertion.

Nor do we, that's just dumb. But, we certainly seek to tell people about it. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

Christian Graus wrote:

There's nothing evil about standing for truth. Jesus gave absolutely no instruction regarding respecting other people's beliefs, especially to the point of failing to correct them when they are incorrect.

so you Force one to accept your religion and thats what sounds fanatic to me,i am afraid u r giving a worst image of your religion,i neever said to say Bad to Evil thing but there is something called tolerance adnyour post reflected that chiristianity has zero tolerence. i am at office unlike u so just found this[^] for you,about bibles saying about respect others.

Christian Graus wrote:

No, I would accept that Islam

No,islam dont encourage to accept it just some of ur firend or anyone declare its true,its very illogical ,when one have brain to read and analyze things,why then just believe in words?

Christian Graus wrote:

If you don't choose one, you've rejected them all.

but you reject OT and judaism,dont u?

Christian Graus wrote:

Nor do we, that's just dumb. But, we certainly seek to tell people about it.

its dumb but true,u seek ways like bribe to tell people about christianity,this is not my madeup statment,it HAS happened many times tht ppl were given bribe to accept christianity,maybe it doesnt happen in US but it has happened in other part of the world. p.s: i am at office so cant continue at this time bye

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

so you Force one to accept your religion

I don't force anyone to do anything. God gave you the choice, if you choose to go to hell, I couldn't force you not to, even if I tried.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

but there is something called tolerance

I am tolerant in that I would defend your right to be wrong, and to worship as you please. I am not tolerant in that my faith in Jesus defines my belief about your faith. I will defend your right to be wrong, but you're still wrong.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

reflected that chiristianity has zero tolerence

Yes, that is correct. The OT in particular is full of stuff about God having zero tolerance of other Gods, I'm surprised you don't know this.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i am at office unlike u

Whenever we talk, I am at work. But, I understand what you mean, not everyone has as good a job as I do :-)

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

so just found this[^] for you,about bibles saying about respect others.

Some of these verses are taken out of context, but none of them suggest that I should accept any other God as being a viable alternative to the one I serve.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

No,islam dont encourage to accept it just some of ur firend or anyone declare its true,its very illogical ,when one have brain to read and analyze things,why then just believe in words?

So how is one expected to accept Islam, if it's not acceptable to do so via the testimony/example of others ?

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

but you reject OT and judaism,dont u?

I reject Judaism, because Judaism by definition rejects Christ. I understand the OT, and I accept to whole heartedly as the word of God.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

it HAS happened many times tht ppl were given bribe to accept christianity

I know. We have a church in Africa, and they don't get world vision aid because they won't go to their church. This is wrong, and as you said with Osama Bin Laden, just because someone gets it wrong does not mean they get to define what it means to get it right. In other words, the people who do this are not acting as Chri

Adnan Siddiqi

Christian Graus wrote:

I don't force anyone to do anything. God gave you the choice, if you choose to go to hell, I couldn't force you not to, even if I tried

but you sounded tht if someone disagree with yo,hes less credible,is it not goot to hear them,make selfstudy then conclude something?

Christian Graus wrote:

I am tolerant

calling ppl of other religions publicly tht they would go in hell,how is it different than perception of osama and co who makes similar claim on TV,y are they extreemist but not you?

Christian Graus wrote:

I reject Judaism, because Judaism by definition rejects Christ. I understand the OT, and I accept to whole heartedly as the word of God.

i was told by a jew that they dont consider jesus as Messiah, your term *REJECT* is very obscure,when u say reject jesus,u say they dont believe that Jesus was credible,u use same word for muslims,neither jews nor muslims reject jesus,its just they dont accept your version of jesus,by word rejection you sounds that we think that there was no jesus on earth?

Christian Graus wrote:

We have a church in Africa, and they don't get world vision aid because they won't go to their church.

whos talkin about africa,it happened recently in srilanka after tsunami,it happened in past before india partition.

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Christian Graus

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

but you sounded tht if someone disagree with yo,hes less credible,is it not goot to hear them,make selfstudy then conclude something?

Naturally, I'm happy to discuss it if you disagree with me. But if I don't believe I am right, why would I believe what I believe ?

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

calling ppl of other religions publicly tht they would go in hell,how is it different than perception of osama and co who makes similar claim on TV,y are they extreemist but not you?

Well, first of all, I have no intention of sending them there, I do not rejoice that this is where they are going. Secondly, I said that only when directly asked, it's not what I'm keen to talk about, but I'm also not ashamed to answer the question. And finally, you quoted me very selectively there, to build a straw man. What I said was, I'm tolerant of your right to be wrong.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

i was told by a jew that they dont consider jesus as Messiah

Of course.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

your term *REJECT* is very obscure

No, I mean it in the dictionary sense of the word.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

neither jews nor muslims reject jesus,its just they dont accept your version of jesus,by word rejection you sounds that we think that there was no jesus on earth?

This is a nit pick. You both reject what Jesus said and what He stood for. If you reject Osama Bin Laden does that mean you claim he is not a real person, or that you reject what he has to say ?

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

whos talkin about africa

Me, because it's an example I know of. If charities act like that in Africa, I'm sure they do elsewhere. And that still has nothing to do with Christianity, it has to do with what these people choose to do. Some 'christian' groups go around using aid to bribe people into church. Some 'islamic' groups like to kill people. Which mistake would you rather have to live with under the banner of your chosen religion ? If you can say OBL does not represent Islam, why can't I say that these people do not represent Christ ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++

Adnan Siddiqi

sorry for late reply,i dont know why didnt i get intimation about ur reply.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that what is termed sharia law when applied in various nations around the world (including some provinces in Pakistan, I believe) is not that, but something masquerading as it?

*nods* the term Shariyah have been ruined similarly as terms like Jihad and fatwa. For westerners or non-muslims shiariah is a barbaric law,similarly JIhad is treated as Holy War while infact literall meaning of JIhad is "Struggle" in english,and the prophet of muslims clearly mentioned that biggest jihad is one which a man does against his soul,i:e avoding bad things. same goes for fatwa,which is treated as equivalent to DEATH while its opposite case.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

That being the case, does true shariah law give men and women equal protection and rights under the law? (including within marriage...e.g. does a woman and her husband have the same rights, and neither is considered superior or inferior to the other?)

Absolutely,a woman can demand divorce from her men as men has rights to give divorce to woman. regards men are superior or women,following verse is enough to explain law of shariah: And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women. (Quran 2:226) there is another verse Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight. (Quran 43:70)

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

Not quite...I'm a Northumbrian by Birth

this term is new for me.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

I know, the two who are most scared live in Egypt and Pakistan...but that's not to say the West is entirely safe either.

You can`t make comments about game unless you come in the middle of ground..just western media propaganda,nothing else.

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:

Not all. Significant parts of the Christian churches in Europe are inclusive (although there is much debate

i talk about source,the Bible,it doesnt support homosexuality i think,if some corrupt preist or group of preists allowed it,doesnt mean its allowed by religion,its similar like some crazy islamic scholar issue evil fatwa which is then treated as part of religion.maybe thtswhy