Anti-VB
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Xoy wrote:
Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb?
I think it's partly elitism. Some developers do it to make themselves feel superior to others. Especially those that claim one programing language is more "real" than others. Others feel that the language has wronged them in some way and refuse to go back to it ever again. Ignore the emotional drivel. What it really comes down to is choosing the right tool for the right job. So, don't label yourself as a C# programmer or a VB programmer or a Java programmer. You're just limiting yourself. Be a Software Developer and recognize that different languages have their own advantages and disadvantages.
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espeir wrote:
VB is for losers!!!
It's just a wanna-be programming language. Real programmers program C++. PC
A good engineer knows ALWAYS what language to use for each project. He chooses between C/C++, C++.NET, C#, VB, VB.NET, Java and even Assembler when needed. Stop this childish behaviors. :suss: ___________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA]
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
As a I/S professional who has been working in the industry for over 20 years, I have seen good and bad code in a variety of languages. Yes, all versions of BASIC let the programmer get away with a lot of crap, but, that has more to do with the programmer than the language. VB is a tool: neither good nor bad. There are many C, C++, C# programmers that believe obfuscated job is just wonderful! Well written code can, and should, exist in all languages. Rather than sewing dissension, work toward educating the masses about better techniques. Tim
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you must be a very lonely man.
If I have the choice between "lonely" and "dealing with bozos", I'll choose "lonely" every freakin time. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Only because he is lashing out. Just an observation. Personally i dont care either!!
You must be new to the forums - yep only 7 messages in a year and a half. For that reason, I will simply say that this is most certainlly NOT "lashing out". If you want to see "lashing out", go to the Soapbox Forum. And I'll give you just one heads up - generally, you should maintain a considerable sense of humor when dealing with me, or you'll be trampled while everyone else vacates the room to give me more space to work. Now that the formalities are over, can you take a little friendly ribbing about VB, or not? (And Gary said it best, what makes you think I give a rat's ass?) ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Perhaps because of "option explicit on/off" and "option strict on/off" and lack of compile time warnings (e.g. not all code paths return value) .. etc. - Malhar
So? Options aren't required and compile time warnings get in the way (for me). In VB .Net there are compile time warnings. __________________________________________ Let's push Satan
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As a I/S professional who has been working in the industry for over 20 years, I have seen good and bad code in a variety of languages. Yes, all versions of BASIC let the programmer get away with a lot of crap, but, that has more to do with the programmer than the language. VB is a tool: neither good nor bad. There are many C, C++, C# programmers that believe obfuscated job is just wonderful! Well written code can, and should, exist in all languages. Rather than sewing dissension, work toward educating the masses about better techniques. Tim
C'mon, we're having a good time, and you come along and start spewing common sense! What the hell is that all about? :) ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Xoy wrote:
Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb?
Because at one point of our career, we had to "fix" some VB code written yb a moron. That's the great feature of VB: coding morons get their application to work (note that someone may be a moron coder, but a genius foobarker, which is why sometimes it makes sense to let a moron coder write apps in VB)
Xoy wrote:
Considering there isn't that much different between them
There's "not much difference" between human and monkey DNA, either...
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistHave you even looked at VB? class BlahBlahBlah { sub New() { object Thingy = new Object; }; }; Public Class BlahBlahBlah Public Sub New() Dim Thingy As New Object End Sub End Class The main difference is case. In VB Thingy = Thingy, thingy, tHINGY, etc. In C Thingy = Thingy. __________________________________________ Let's push Satan
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A good engineer knows ALWAYS what language to use for each project. He chooses between C/C++, C++.NET, C#, VB, VB.NET, Java and even Assembler when needed. Stop this childish behaviors. :suss: ___________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA]
Dario Solera wrote:
He chooses between C/C++, C++.NET, C#, VB, VB.NET, Java and even Assembler when needed.
Right you are. It really should depend on the project requirements, time frame to complete the project, skillsets within the development team, etc. Sure with the assembly language bit, it may be useful when someone needs to get down in the dirty with the processor level of work, but I wouldn't use it to develop a full-blown application. If the development group develops quality code in VB, let them develop in VB when permitted.
Dario Solera wrote:
Stop this childish behaviors.
Yes. We are all entitled to our opinion of what languages we like and dislike, but we may not have much say if the big bosses demand a project is coded in one language or another. PC
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So? Options aren't required and compile time warnings get in the way (for me). In VB .Net there are compile time warnings. __________________________________________ Let's push Satan
What I was trying to convery is that the VB allows users to turn off such explicit declaration of variables, explicit casting of expressions (when required). Furthermore, VB has such concept of "Modules" which allows users to create static methods. The legacy VB was not OO by nature, so those users to are now evolving to VB.net continue to write the same type of non-OO code without taking advantage of the new features. One of the newly introduced feature of VB.net 2k5 is the "My" keyword which allows programming shortcuts, thus not forcing the user to learn more about the encapsulating classes. Because VB makes it easier for users to write code, it on the otherhand does not require them to think profoundly and structured-ly about the code. Thus because VB allows such language exploitations, it promotes bad programming practices which come back and haunt you (or whoever is dealing with the mess) later. I'm not stereotyping that ALL VB developers are not quality programmers. My opinions reflect my observations of the code I have reviewed in the past. I'm not trying to flame another debate of VB vs C#, I just think a language has a strenght as long as the it forces you to learn proper programming techniques WITHOUT exposing too many keywords. I'd say the strengh of the language should be measured by the reserved keywords! - Malhar
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Basic created it's own infrastructure in Visual Basic
Thats one thing I like about .net :) The errors & warnings typically take you to the right location of the error rather than some random error in some random file ;P
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
- As pointed out compiler error/warning level support, how well can the compiler help you detect errors
I'd say thats more a compiler issue than language ;)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
a) when you have to debug a subtle error, how well will the environment help you do so?
IDE issue... even if vb has traditionally had a good ide for debugging :)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
C# borrowed from both C and VB infrastructure, but also built up its own to surpass VB.
I wouldn't say that C#'s infrastructure was built to surpass vb... seems to me that microsoft is trying to keep the two fairly equivalent.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
b) Is the language set up such that the compiler just tells you "error line 110" and leaves you pondering what you typed
Basic started long before vb... before c++ even I think... dun remember for sure. Course, vb made a lot of changes... it still had something to build off of. vb.net again made changes... and again had something to build off of.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
My suggestion to anyone is run out and learn a second computer language. I don't care if you are programming in C# or C++, or even still C or VB, even if you are scouring the internet for Ada support, learn a second language. It gives you alternate logic concepts, allows you to program your code by design strategies rather than just "syntactically and functionally correct." Programming is more than just the language you are writing in, and the best way to break out of that in any language is to learn a second one.
Indeed. Learning more than one language is good :D Learn enough of them and they all seem the same ;P Well... close enough to it ;P I've picked up several of my preferences in programming from different languages :)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Lisp is strange
I thought lisp was kind of interesting... a slightly di
Xoy wrote:
I wouldn't say one language is necessarily superior to another... it depends on what the program is supposed to do.
Theoretically RPG I/II/III/IV etc. were supposed to build columnar reports easily. A report designer add-on to almost any modern language can produce it better. :) so we are still stuck that RPG is a lousy language. :laugh: But they integrate well with Cobol. :suss: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Xoy wrote:
I wouldn't say one language is necessarily superior to another... it depends on what the program is supposed to do.
Theoretically RPG I/II/III/IV etc. were supposed to build columnar reports easily. A report designer add-on to almost any modern language can produce it better. :) so we are still stuck that RPG is a lousy language. :laugh: But they integrate well with Cobol. :suss: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Well I'm sure even BF has its applications... as limited as it may be ;P (which btw exists for .net now too :suss: ) It does what its supposed to do... Though of course times change too... sometimes a newer langauge/whatever will take over an older one... that do the same thing... just in a better way :)
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Have you even looked at VB? class BlahBlahBlah { sub New() { object Thingy = new Object; }; }; Public Class BlahBlahBlah Public Sub New() Dim Thingy As New Object End Sub End Class The main difference is case. In VB Thingy = Thingy, thingy, tHINGY, etc. In C Thingy = Thingy. __________________________________________ Let's push Satan
A language doesn't consist only of syntax.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Well I'm sure even BF has its applications... as limited as it may be ;P (which btw exists for .net now too :suss: ) It does what its supposed to do... Though of course times change too... sometimes a newer langauge/whatever will take over an older one... that do the same thing... just in a better way :)
Xoy wrote:
Well I'm sure even BF has its applications... as limited as it may be
What about malbroge(sp, named after a circle in dantes inferno). It took several years before anyone was able to write a hello world app in it, and IIRC it was done by generating every possible program of sizeN and testing the output.
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Just wait for Mr Christian Graus of Tasmania to give his opinion on this matter. :-D
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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A language doesn't consist only of syntax.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistCar jumps across pond!
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Car jumps across pond!
eh? :confused:
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
eh? :confused:
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistJust proving your point. :)
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I think that the main reason that there are so many anti-vb is because of
Xoy wrote:
the people who use it
From what I understand many people think that VB coders produces sloppy programs with the mind for completing the program quickly rather than stably. I started off as a VB programmer years ago and even then found some quirks of the language which I didn't like but it wasn't a bad language as such. VB.NET started to address these problems but then I switched to C# and have harldy looked back. Just my 2p (I feel like being patriotic now that Wales is back winning in the 6 nations :-D) on the General Opinion. Ed
Ed.Poore wrote:
From what I understand many people think that VB coders produces sloppy programs with the mind for completing the program quickly rather than stably.
For one, there's no such word as "stably". For two, they do. Jeremy Falcon
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Well, I for one, can you that this place would be supremely boring without people like you. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
I agree completely, whatever it is you meant to say.;P Watch the mail... a package should be along shortly. I tossed in TASM and TD, to boot, and if I find the manuals they'll be along shortly. Have fun!:-D "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
