New Images Support 'Big Bang' Theory
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13.7 billion years ago, the universe suddenly expanded from the size of a marble to the size of the cosmos in less than a trillionth of a second. Why do people find the statement, "God created the heavens and the earth" somehow less believable? :rolleyes: Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
the universe suddenly expanded from the size of a marble to the size of the cosmos
Surely the universe has always been the size of the cosmos? They're the same thing...
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
the universe suddenly expanded from the size of a marble to the size of the cosmos in less than a trillionth of a second
Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. ColinMackay.net Scottish Developers are looking for speakers for user group sessions over the next few months. Do you want to know more?
That doesn't make sense logically. The cosmos was the size of a marble, then it expanded to the size of the cosmos? :confused: Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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Using your logic, I can't go into a library and find various books that support an idea, because they are in the same place. The Bible is a compilation of numerous books; the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts all support that Jesus rose from the dead. Five seperate accounts, bound together into a single volume.
Huh? Do you read what you write? I can go into a library and find many books to support a theory. The bible is one book, badly written (try and get it published today) and in which one part (the new testament) uses each segment thereof as a proof that the next segment is the real deal. Does not add up. www.merrens.com
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What kind of proof are you looking for? An early follower of Jesus put it this way: the evidence of God is all around us; we don't need a miraculous, supernatural "God was here!" kind of event to prove him, do we? Is that what you're looking for? If it is, you might be disappointed, because you are not the first to ask for such proof of God:
Later a few scholars and teachers got on him. "Teacher, we want to see your credentials. Give us some hard evidence that God is in this. How about a miracle?" Jesus said, "You're looking for proof, but you're looking for the wrong kind. All you want is something to titillate your curiosity, satisfy your lust for miracles. Because of this, the only proof you're going to get is what looks like the absence of proof.
What I am convinced of is that people who are looking for this kind of proof are out to disprove the existence of God. They aren't really looking for miracles, they're just out to disprove God's existence by the absence of miracles. If that is you, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise; in fact, Jesus performed miracles himself witnessed by not only his followers, but also by people who were out to disprove his existence such as secular historians and the Judaic scribes, both groups of people saw the miracles, yet refused to believe anyways because they already had their made up their minds, there was no convincing them. I am convinced that if you do not have an open mind to God--if you are only out there to disprove his existence--then even miracles will not convince you, as it did not convince people with closed minds and hard hearts in the past. You've got to have an open mind to the existence of God before you will find proof either way.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
What kind of proof are you looking for?
More than the word of a religious man. www.merrens.com
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That doesn't make sense logically. The cosmos was the size of a marble, then it expanded to the size of the cosmos? :confused: Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
It's all very self-referential really. Think of it like a method that calls itself. ColinMackay.net Scottish Developers are looking for speakers for user group sessions over the next few months. Do you want to know more?
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Huh? Do you read what you write? I can go into a library and find many books to support a theory. The bible is one book, badly written (try and get it published today) and in which one part (the new testament) uses each segment thereof as a proof that the next segment is the real deal. Does not add up. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comdigital man wrote:
try and get it published today
Uh...It still is published...It's the most published book in history. Besides, there are plenty of other historical accounts that back up the story of Jesus. Ask any reputable history professor. He might not agree that Jesus performed miracles or rose from the dead, but the history is completely consistent with all other historical contexts.
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I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I assume that you are just trying to be funny. If so, put a smiley face after your post and let everyone know. If you are serious, then you need an education in civility and what the grace of God, through the person of Jesus Christ, really means. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
If you are serious, then you need an education in civility and what the grace of God, through the person of Jesus Christ, really means.
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking. Who the hell do you think you are to preach? How dare you presume to tell other people what to believe and how to behave. It is you that needs an education and if you truly claim to represent your god then I pity that poor entity its choice of followers. www.merrens.com
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13.7 billion years ago, the universe suddenly expanded from the size of a marble to the size of the cosmos in less than a trillionth of a second. Why do people find the statement, "God created the heavens and the earth" somehow less believable? :rolleyes: Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Personally, I don't have a problem resolving the issue of creationism vs evolution. I believe that if God had tried to explain the Big Bang and the single celled thingies to Moses when he wrote Genesis, it would have been far over Moses' head. Maybe God did explain it and Moses forgot the finer details. Who knows? My question for the unbelievers is - "who flicked the marble to cause the explosion?" :)
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digital man wrote:
try and get it published today
Uh...It still is published...It's the most published book in history. Besides, there are plenty of other historical accounts that back up the story of Jesus. Ask any reputable history professor. He might not agree that Jesus performed miracles or rose from the dead, but the history is completely consistent with all other historical contexts.
espeir wrote:
Uh...It still is published...It's the most published book in history.
I think you know what I meant. Besides, is it really? I thought that there are books that have outsold specific versions of the bible?
espeir wrote:
Besides, there are plenty of other historical accounts that back up the story of Jesus. Ask any reputable history professor. He might not agree that Jesus performed miracles or rose from the dead, but the history is completely consistent with all other historical contexts.
Not the point: the others are not talking about a historical figure: they're talking about a man they allege was the son of an entity and who dies and then, well, lived again. Different entirely. www.merrens.com
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Personally, I don't have a problem resolving the issue of creationism vs evolution. I believe that if God had tried to explain the Big Bang and the single celled thingies to Moses when he wrote Genesis, it would have been far over Moses' head. Maybe God did explain it and Moses forgot the finer details. Who knows? My question for the unbelievers is - "who flicked the marble to cause the explosion?" :)
xlr8td wrote:
"who flicked the marble to cause the explosion?"
Who flicked the flicker? www.merrens.com
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Now that is funny: probably a nice way to end the conversation. Well done. www.merrens.com
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Judah Himango wrote:
What kind of proof are you looking for?
More than the word of a religious man. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comThat's understandable. I would too. So long as one keeps an open mind about God, I think you will find what you're looking for. *edit* by the way, it looks like your Merrens site is down, just an FYI.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Personally, I don't have a problem resolving the issue of creationism vs evolution. I believe that if God had tried to explain the Big Bang and the single celled thingies to Moses when he wrote Genesis, it would have been far over Moses' head. Maybe God did explain it and Moses forgot the finer details. Who knows? My question for the unbelievers is - "who flicked the marble to cause the explosion?" :)
xlr8td wrote:
My question for the unbelievers is - "who flicked the marble to cause the explosion?"
And mine for believers is who flicked the nothing to create the god(s). In either case you've got an uncaused cause, or infinite regress. :D Or in other words "You can't trick me that easily, it's turtles all the way down".
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
If you are serious, then you need an education in civility and what the grace of God, through the person of Jesus Christ, really means.
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking. Who the hell do you think you are to preach? How dare you presume to tell other people what to believe and how to behave. It is you that needs an education and if you truly claim to represent your god then I pity that poor entity its choice of followers. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comGary was quite right; if that guy was saying "demon lover" seriously, and assuming he is a believer in God, he needed to be straightened out. It not arrogance, it's correction: belief in God is not about calling other people names or condemning them, even though some of us have done that in error.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
What's outside the marble?[^]
there is no outside. there is only the marble. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
More: "There is no marble!" ;)
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
If you are serious, then you need an education in civility and what the grace of God, through the person of Jesus Christ, really means.
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking. Who the hell do you think you are to preach? How dare you presume to tell other people what to believe and how to behave. It is you that needs an education and if you truly claim to represent your god then I pity that poor entity its choice of followers. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comdigital man wrote:
Who the hell do you think you are to preach?
Who's doing the preaching? Gary made a comment about the Big Bang, and you butted in with insults directed toward his most deeply held beliefs. Your attitude is THE SAME as those that you pretend to be better than. You're closed-minded and rude. If someone has a different point of view from you, you insult them and ridicule them.
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
If you are serious, then you need an education in civility and what the grace of God, through the person of Jesus Christ, really means.
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking. Who the hell do you think you are to preach? How dare you presume to tell other people what to believe and how to behave. It is you that needs an education and if you truly claim to represent your god then I pity that poor entity its choice of followers. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comdigital man wrote:
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. :) I don't claim to represent anyone. I am a child of God and, as children are sometimes prone to do, I say and do things that are not in His perfect will for me. I was commenting on his choice of words and inquiring if he was being serious. If he choses to take it personally, then I will work that out with him. I wasn't telling him how to behave, I was asking him, implicitly, to reconsider the effect that his words might have on others. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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digital man wrote:
Wow, your arrogance is breathtaking.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. :) I don't claim to represent anyone. I am a child of God and, as children are sometimes prone to do, I say and do things that are not in His perfect will for me. I was commenting on his choice of words and inquiring if he was being serious. If he choses to take it personally, then I will work that out with him. I wasn't telling him how to behave, I was asking him, implicitly, to reconsider the effect that his words might have on others. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
See, there you go again, passing the blame for your actions to your god. What a perfect life you must have: you can say and do as you please and when it all goes tits up you can pass the buck. And why are you so easily offended by words? I don't know you or him or anyone here and you can say what you like to me (actually you can to my face as many will atest) and I don't get offended. I might laugh but offended? No. www.merrens.com
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Bassam, Great question. If the universe was the size of a marble, where was it located? This is where I think science falls down. The traditional Judeao Christian understanding of creation is that both time and space are part of the creation... which makes the question of what happened "before" the Big Bang... and "where" did the Big Bang take place... somewhat moot points. 100 years ago secularists were deriding believers about the idea of a instantaneous creation. It turns out that instantaneous creation was exactly the way it happened. Science studies matter situated in time and space... God, from the traditional viewpoint, stands outside of matter, time, and space... and is therefore transcendent. So the "secular" objection that science can't find God directly in space, matter, and time posses no issue for me... it would be a bigger issue if they did claim to find God. Of course Christians believe that God the Son (Jesus) did walk the earth. I believe that too... but not through science... through faith. But I do love this whole marble story... very, very cool. Chadlling
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That's understandable. I would too. So long as one keeps an open mind about God, I think you will find what you're looking for. *edit* by the way, it looks like your Merrens site is down, just an FYI.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Thanks to Brinkster and a bad MySql server. I'm hoping to get switched to a new one in the morning. Grr. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.com
