New Images Support 'Big Bang' Theory
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This is why i hate such trite comparisons. "X transistors fit in the width of a human hair?" "The disk big enough to store N libraries of congress." "About the size of a large bolt." We don't know what sort of marble is being compared to, and i suspect there might be problems with such a comparison anyway; after all, when the Universe is the size of a marble, what sort of meaningful measurements can be made of a given marble?
Now taking suggestions for the next release of CPhog...
Not to mention that supposedly space and time did not exist. So if space did not exist, how could the universe take up the space of a marble?
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digital man wrote:
Where can I find copies of the these independent accounts of this supposed event?
You asked, so here are some: From the Book of Mormon 3rd Nephi Chapter 11[^] 1 AND now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful; and they were marveling and wondering one with another, and were showing one to another the great and marvelous change which had taken place. 2 And they were also conversing about this Jesus Christ, of whom the sign had been given concerning his death. 3 And it came to pass that while they were thus conversing one with another, they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul, and did cause their hearts to burn. 4 And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understood it not. 5 And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came. 6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them: 7 Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him. 8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them. 9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying: 10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. 11 And
Sorry pal, this proves absolutely nothing. These are not eye-witness verifiable accounts. They would not stand up in a court of law, though I'd love to see you try. www.merrens.com
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For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
For since the creation
Gary, what verse is that? I think I recognize it, but I'm familiar with the KJ version of the bible, so I can't place it. Thanks for the quote though, it's right to the point.
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digital man wrote:
I don't get offended.
You sound offended...
Now taking suggestions for the next release of CPhog...
Nope, not at all although I am enjoying the spirited to-and-fro. Jolly good fun for a friday don't you think? www.merrens.com
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
the universe suddenly expanded from the size of a marble to the size of the cosmos in less than a trillionth of a second
Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. ColinMackay.net Scottish Developers are looking for speakers for user group sessions over the next few months. Do you want to know more?
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble
LOL. That's good. It's a good way to see it. I think that's signature material!
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Nope, not at all although I am enjoying the spirited to-and-fro. Jolly good fun for a friday don't you think? www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comA good way to burn an hour before lunch, anyways. :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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digital man wrote:
See, there you go again, passing the blame for your actions to your god.
When did I do that? :confused:
digital man wrote:
And why are you so easily offended by words?
:confused::confused::confused: I have been trying to think of a reply, but I am speechless. It is like me making the comment, "I like peas" and you replying, "But, what did the Eskimos ever do to you?" It makes no sense. Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
When did I do that?
When you said: "I say and do things that are not in His perfect will for me".
Gary Kirkham wrote:
I have been trying to think of a reply
Try harder. You are avoiding the question with misdirection. www.merrens.com
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A good way to burn an hour before lunch, anyways. :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Lunch? We're having a nice curry for dinner in about an hour or so. My tummy can't wait. Mmmm. www.merrens.com
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
What's outside the marble?[^]
there is no outside. there is only the marble. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
Chris Losinger wrote:
What's outside the marble
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
For since the creation
Gary, what verse is that? I think I recognize it, but I'm familiar with the KJ version of the bible, so I can't place it. Thanks for the quote though, it's right to the point.
I'm thinking that's the first chapter of Paul's letter to Rome, towards the end of the chapter. [shameless plug]Go read it in modern English[^]. :)[/plug]
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Tim Carmichael wrote:
But, if proof is required, Jesus died and rose from the dead. Proof of God's existence
sorry. even if Jesus did come back to life, that would not necessarily prove anything about God. it might prove that zombies really happen, that Jesus wasn't actually dead, that some human or natural action caused him to start breathing again, etc.. only faith gets you from a story about a zombie to "Proof of God's existence" Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
Chris Losinger wrote:
only faith gets you from a story about a zombie to "Proof of God's existence"
And only with faith can you believe that the universe came into existence by chance.
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Bassam, Great question. If the universe was the size of a marble, where was it located? This is where I think science falls down. The traditional Judeao Christian understanding of creation is that both time and space are part of the creation... which makes the question of what happened "before" the Big Bang... and "where" did the Big Bang take place... somewhat moot points. 100 years ago secularists were deriding believers about the idea of a instantaneous creation. It turns out that instantaneous creation was exactly the way it happened. Science studies matter situated in time and space... God, from the traditional viewpoint, stands outside of matter, time, and space... and is therefore transcendent. So the "secular" objection that science can't find God directly in space, matter, and time posses no issue for me... it would be a bigger issue if they did claim to find God. Of course Christians believe that God the Son (Jesus) did walk the earth. I believe that too... but not through science... through faith. But I do love this whole marble story... very, very cool. Chadlling
Chadlling wrote:
Great question.
Very, very well written. Thank you!
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
For since the creation
Gary, what verse is that? I think I recognize it, but I'm familiar with the KJ version of the bible, so I can't place it. Thanks for the quote though, it's right to the point.
Romans 1:20-25 Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
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DarkElv wrote:
some god will just create the computer and internet for us.
Wasn't that Al Gore? Holy Cow! Are you saying he's a GOD??? LOL!:laugh::laugh:;P;P;P
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digital man wrote:
scientists are examining an event
These scientists are not examining the Big Bang. They are examining microwave signals and interpreting them based on their pre-suppositions. They have a predisposition to the universe being billions of years old and have being created by a big explosion. Therefore, their "evidence" supports them. It's the difference between operational science and creation science. Operational science involves things that can be examined and reproduced according to the scientific method. Creation science is more based on your "religion" (Humanism, Christianity, etc.). These scientists obviously are humanist (atheist) who believe there is no external being controlling the universe; and that's fine as long as their results are taken within that context rather than as "proof" of anything. You can't tell me with a straight face that these guys can tell you what happened billions of years ago when the universe was a trillionth of a second old by looking at some microwave signals? :laugh: If you believe that, you have more faith than I do! Barry Etter
I'm pretty sure that you know what I meant and no, of course I can't but I find it somewhat more interesting and believable than an invisible being ruling our lives and at least they're making an attempt to understand existence without need to resort to an omnipotent being that conveniently negates the need to examine much of anything you don't really understand and whilst you may snort at their attempts to interpret the signals at least they are trying. I have absolute faith in myself. www.merrens.com
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Nope, not at all although I am enjoying the spirited to-and-fro. Jolly good fun for a friday don't you think? www.merrens.com
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
What's outside the marble?[^]
The marble bag :omg: Go watch Men in Black[^] if you don't believe me... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Found on Bash.org [erno] hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
-- modified at 9:05 Friday 17th March, 2006
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Romans 1:20-25 Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot Me blog, You read
Thanks
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Lunch? We're having a nice curry for dinner in about an hour or so. My tummy can't wait. Mmmm. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.comNice. My wife cooked some corned beef and baked red potatoes last night and I am having the leftovers for lunch. :)
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digital man wrote:
Where is the tangible, verifiable evidence of your god?
leaving that question alone for a second ( and I *can* answer it ), do you suppose the existence of a God excludes the existence of any evidence of His handywork ? Assuming there was a big bang ( and I have no trouble with that ), does that prove that no God was involved ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
leaving that question alone for a second ( and I *can* answer it ), do you suppose the existence of a God excludes the existence of any evidence of His handywork ? Assuming there was a big bang ( and I have no trouble with that ), does that prove that no God was involved ?
Nope, but neither does it prove there is a god. I find it far simpler to not believe than to think that there is some all-powerful, invisible being watching over us 24/7. It's nonsense to frighten little children with. www.merrens.com
www.bkmrx.com