Avalon is a little overwhelming
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But it is good stuff! Really good stuff!
As I'm unlikely to see "Avalon' deployed onto any of my employeer's desktops for a few years, I've not really done much beyond a bit of fooling around with the beta. The concepts excites me but I've not gone into the nitty-gritty of it all. Still C++/CLI has impressed me. I've got C++/MFC code interacting nicely with .NET assemblies. The syntax is taking a little getting used to, all the :: and -> seem so alien to me now. And I'm sure I'll get used to putting ^ instead of * and using gcnew. The stuff on VoidNish has been very useful for getting me going. Even though the UI I'm adding into this MFC app will be written in C#, just for fun I'm going to convert my MyXaml data-entry from sample into CLI/C++. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Even though the UI I'm adding into this MFC app will be written in C#, just for fun I'm going to convert my MyXaml data-entry from sample into CLI/C++.
Pressurize Marc to write a C++/CLI wrapper for his library :rolleyes: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon?
I still haven't figured stuff out yet, but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called).
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA.
Handcoding C++ right now. I tried the C# designer (is it called Cider?) and I found that it wasn't all that functional yet.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!";
I would say yes. Else we are going to have questions like, "Can someone tell me how to set the text of a button control please?" as the MostFAQ :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider. There's also several other XAML-emitting applications - http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called).
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
Ah, no wonder the rendering is so good. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
I believe you can load a physical XAML file at runtime. But it'd be cool if you can compile XAML into an obj (or something like that) that can be linked with the main C++ app. Maybe, baml support in the C++ compiler/linker would have been cool. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider. There's also several other XAML-emitting applications - http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider.
Ah okay - Though since it's only for VB and C# now, it may as well be called the "Xaml Designer for VB and C# languages" :) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Albert Pascual wrote:
Why you say that?. Do you have some samples?
There are no non-XAML samples available. Looks like everyone's going to use XAML for Avalon UIs. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!I think putting some seperation between the code logic and the UI code is probably a good idea.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon?
I still haven't figured stuff out yet, but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Yep, they don't create HWNDs for every little control like it is in MFC or Windows Forms. Everything contained in the window is a single HWND, with the exception of context menus as I recall, since their contents can extrude outside the main HWND.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Marc Clifton wrote:
You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA.
Handcoding C++ right now. I tried the C# designer (is it called Cider?) and I found that it wasn't all that functional yet.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!";
I would say yes. Else we are going to have questions like, "Can someone tell me how to set the text of a button control please?" as the MostFAQ :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nish, It is a new paradigm and that's what makes it hard but once you "get it" then you start thinking in "Avalon" not Win32 API. Yes, there are not windows but logical "Controls" that are rendered in the main window which is the only "real" window. The Java Swing library have been doing this for years, so it is not really a new idea. Yes, it is hard when you first start because you have to abandon your hard earned knowledge, your "black belt" in Windows API and start with a new way of writing controls that does feel overwhelming. I did feel very overwhelmed at the beggining but now I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I love controls and as part of my learning I am writing a TabControl totally from scratch --not derived from the one that comes with Avalon. Here is a screenshot if you feel curios how my efforts are going. Custom TabControl Carlos H. Perez
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Nish, It is a new paradigm and that's what makes it hard but once you "get it" then you start thinking in "Avalon" not Win32 API. Yes, there are not windows but logical "Controls" that are rendered in the main window which is the only "real" window. The Java Swing library have been doing this for years, so it is not really a new idea. Yes, it is hard when you first start because you have to abandon your hard earned knowledge, your "black belt" in Windows API and start with a new way of writing controls that does feel overwhelming. I did feel very overwhelmed at the beggining but now I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I love controls and as part of my learning I am writing a TabControl totally from scratch --not derived from the one that comes with Avalon. Here is a screenshot if you feel curios how my efforts are going. Custom TabControl Carlos H. Perez
That looks really good, Carlos :-) I am happy to see that talented guys like you, are moving into Avalon already. With WinForms, there wasn't this much promise or excitement, but I somehow feel that Avalon is the future, and it's one helluva cool future! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Not like Windows Forms at all - some of the stuff is a little non-intuitive. Hopefully, it'll all get a little more familiar soon. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Been looking at a lot of the stuff, and somehow for the apps I work on most of the time, I'm just going to stick with MFC. Sounds crazy, but so much of the code I work on has to be cross compilable (Linux & Solaris), and its just easier to work with C++. Will have to forgo some of the nice stuff to do with thead safey around the gui but all the new API's really are ditch everything you have done in the past.
