How worthwhile is MS certification for CVs/interviews and payscales?
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Well, you know what, basically I think it all depends on the location where you are. See, I am from Pakistan, a certified peprson could have more preference over non certified peoples. Of-course, companies will not only rely on your certificate, but will also measure your skills by their own. I have MCAD, but its just like nothing for me, since I am not attached to some company but an individual. I work for my clients based on the hourly rate and when I told him that I achieved MCAD, he increased my hourly rate. In this sense, it was good for me. Even my friend working in a software company, can force owners to increase his salary. But once again, it all depends on the location where you have your professional life. Apart from this, it is a fact that there are many "Transcenders" available which makes it easy to get certified. So once you go through those, and you have some expertise, never think that you will fail. So if your seniors know this fact, the certification may be nothing more than a piece of paper for you and for your boss of-course. Best wishes Sameers (theAngrycodeR) Need custom software? Contact DevelopersINN[^] Need to add reminders for your Outlook emails? Try Outlook Personal Assistant[^]
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Here in Australia, with my Experience, certification is highly valuable from what I have seen, if the person has been certified right. It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). Add that with the experience of some years with C# and Java and your looking at a nice position indeed. However, each country/person/company is different. Just in my opinion it was worth myself getting certified with Microsoft and if able.. Java and CISO. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
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Here in Australia, with my Experience, certification is highly valuable from what I have seen, if the person has been certified right. It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). Add that with the experience of some years with C# and Java and your looking at a nice position indeed. However, each country/person/company is different. Just in my opinion it was worth myself getting certified with Microsoft and if able.. Java and CISO. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
Daniel@SA wrote:
It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc...
I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Daniel@SA wrote:
In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company).
MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it. IMHO good "beefy" resume is much more valuable than a certification for a software developer. ps I'm from Aus too.
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
I did my MCSD in India and I reckon one place will be much the same as the next there. If you don't know your stuff before you go then you're not going to get much out of it other than a certificate. I spent the month of my boot camp in a one on one training environment. I sacked my first trainer and the second was little better. He read from the books parrot fashion and I probably taught him more about VB.NET than he taught me. Is it worth it. If you're paying bugger all for it (in Western terms) in India where there is the probability of minimal investment in time as well then definitely. Downside is your conning everyone. If you have no experience and are trying to get in then it probably has some value. If you're having to do the work and spend the money then I wouldn't bother. The syllabus is mostly rubbish. I now work for a software development company in Australia and the work I do goes far beyond the MCSD. Spend the time learning the material (exclude the analyzing requirements book), don't bother with the certificate and spend the money on going to India anyway. It's a fantastic place. Allister
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Daniel@SA wrote:
It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc...
I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Daniel@SA wrote:
In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company).
MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it. IMHO good "beefy" resume is much more valuable than a certification for a software developer. ps I'm from Aus too.
Hi Igor :) another Aussie!
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Yes I agree, i shoudl of stated this more cleary, MCP doesnt tech you much, however, it is the first step. Souly, it wont help you much.
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it.
I cant speak from all experiance, just my own. For this case, it is certiantly the case. but it may be different for all. My personally feeling is, MCP is somewhat worthless. butif you continue on to MCSE and/or MCSD it is. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
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I've never looked into certifications myself, but in 11+ years in the business, at various companies, I've heard exactly zero people talk about taking a test or having a cert. So in dev and QA at least, I would say don't bother.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | NEW!! PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
I totally agree with Mike. I have been in the industry for around 9+ years, but never felt like I should have the certification.
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Agreed 100%. I have absolutely no qualifications, not even a degree. It's never been a problem. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
I have a Novell CNE. The Novell CNE is not worth the paper it's printed on. Employers do want CERTS. I have been in the industry for almost 20 years now and see a need for Certs. In the Old days you could know just about everthing but today things are getting more complicated and you need to specialize. Maybe I am just getting OLD! Mike -- modified at 23:25 Tuesday 18th April, 2006
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
all a cert is good for is to show to an employer thats it. so when you go for your interview the person doing the hiring is going to see your certified and that will help in this situation because you have documents saying you can do the job. that will set you apart form other aplicents that my not have one. ;) dont know if it helps but its how it goes.
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It depends on the company. Some require, some don't. Those that require it are probably Microsoft Partners.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
Our company was at a loss lately, We needed to renew our Universal MSDN subscription recently, And If you are a Microsoft Partner, you recieve X amount of Licences and subscriptions free of charge. One of their requirements was MCP certifications from several staff members. The MCP's allowed us to "upgrade" our systems guy and gave him additional info on handling a specific server (And you know most systems guys are OJT's most times) The other MCP's allowed me to upgrade one of my programmers by certifying him to a specific MCP from Visual Studio 2005, C# ASP.NET 2.0 from which he returned like a kid with new toys. I myslef am WELL INFORMED and know alot about what is and isn't available I cruise the dev sites as much as anyone, but you can't compare a guy doing a course that has been approved by microsoft to me reading a couple of tutorials and playing around with something, to reallt learning it correctly via course. NOW, don't get me wrong. Doing a CERT and then not using your knowledge, or just using BrainDumps is not really getting a CERT in my book. Thats just trying to beat the system. I am talking about real courses, really learning, in order to improve and upgrade your knowledge. Thats my 2 cents. in summary: * a CERT allows you to upgrade you knowledge. * Companies like Micorosft have programs that require CERTs, and if you fit the bill with one of them, you pay just the CERTs which are much less expensive than what you would pay for the same licenses by yourself. (sometime 2,000$ less) and your team feels motivated because you send them to courses and expand their knowledge, which makes them more valuble. Mickey Perlstein Head of R&D www.interlect.co.il
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all a cert is good for is to show to an employer thats it. so when you go for your interview the person doing the hiring is going to see your certified and that will help in this situation because you have documents saying you can do the job. that will set you apart form other aplicents that my not have one. ;) dont know if it helps but its how it goes.
A certification is basically a sheet of paper saying you read some books and took a test. It doesn't actually mean you can apply anything you learned. At my last company we had 2 MCSDs that were completely worthless. They only had the certification and didn't have any real world experience. They did a lot more harm than good because they mislead less technical management. The managers thought these people knew what they were talking about because they had a certification so they just took their lame ideas as facts. Employers who aren't technically savy love certification holders because they simply don't know any better. The only reason to do it would be to earn a higher wage if you could directly tie it to that. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money. I now have my own company and I won't hire someone with a certification unless they have a good amount of real world experience and really good references from prior coworkers or managers. I would hire someone who doesn't even have a high school degree if they could prove their competence and had good references. There is no substitute for real world experience.
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I personally think it's a waste of money. A good, confident programmer doesn't need to be certified with a sheet of paper. NULL
Meat Loaf wrote:
I personally think it's a waste of money
Do U really think that certification doesn't add additional stuff Certified Professionals are more productive than the other one This is how we distinguishes the others. Why do we go/need for Certification? • To achieve standards • In order to compete enough • To prove Unique • To technically grow • To identify qualified people in specific job Please don't discourage others calling it as waste of time "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Hi Igor :) another Aussie!
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Yes I agree, i shoudl of stated this more cleary, MCP doesnt tech you much, however, it is the first step. Souly, it wont help you much.
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it.
I cant speak from all experiance, just my own. For this case, it is certiantly the case. but it may be different for all. My personally feeling is, MCP is somewhat worthless. butif you continue on to MCSE and/or MCSD it is. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
What About MCAD? "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Meat Loaf wrote:
I personally think it's a waste of money
Do U really think that certification doesn't add additional stuff Certified Professionals are more productive than the other one This is how we distinguishes the others. Why do we go/need for Certification? • To achieve standards • In order to compete enough • To prove Unique • To technically grow • To identify qualified people in specific job Please don't discourage others calling it as waste of time "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Here is what it boils down to. Your resume or CV is the tool needed to get you the interview. You have HR people, Directors, and such reviewing your CV/Resume trying to decide which person to bring in to interview. A certification will bring cause you to get more interviews and calls for positions. It is the interview that gets you the job. You decide.