How worthwhile is MS certification for CVs/interviews and payscales?
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Daniel@SA wrote:
It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc...
I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Daniel@SA wrote:
In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company).
MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it. IMHO good "beefy" resume is much more valuable than a certification for a software developer. ps I'm from Aus too.
Hi Igor :) another Aussie!
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Yes I agree, i shoudl of stated this more cleary, MCP doesnt tech you much, however, it is the first step. Souly, it wont help you much.
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it.
I cant speak from all experiance, just my own. For this case, it is certiantly the case. but it may be different for all. My personally feeling is, MCP is somewhat worthless. butif you continue on to MCSE and/or MCSD it is. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
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I've never looked into certifications myself, but in 11+ years in the business, at various companies, I've heard exactly zero people talk about taking a test or having a cert. So in dev and QA at least, I would say don't bother.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | NEW!! PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
I totally agree with Mike. I have been in the industry for around 9+ years, but never felt like I should have the certification.
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Agreed 100%. I have absolutely no qualifications, not even a degree. It's never been a problem. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
I have a Novell CNE. The Novell CNE is not worth the paper it's printed on. Employers do want CERTS. I have been in the industry for almost 20 years now and see a need for Certs. In the Old days you could know just about everthing but today things are getting more complicated and you need to specialize. Maybe I am just getting OLD! Mike -- modified at 23:25 Tuesday 18th April, 2006
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
all a cert is good for is to show to an employer thats it. so when you go for your interview the person doing the hiring is going to see your certified and that will help in this situation because you have documents saying you can do the job. that will set you apart form other aplicents that my not have one. ;) dont know if it helps but its how it goes.
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It depends on the company. Some require, some don't. Those that require it are probably Microsoft Partners.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
Our company was at a loss lately, We needed to renew our Universal MSDN subscription recently, And If you are a Microsoft Partner, you recieve X amount of Licences and subscriptions free of charge. One of their requirements was MCP certifications from several staff members. The MCP's allowed us to "upgrade" our systems guy and gave him additional info on handling a specific server (And you know most systems guys are OJT's most times) The other MCP's allowed me to upgrade one of my programmers by certifying him to a specific MCP from Visual Studio 2005, C# ASP.NET 2.0 from which he returned like a kid with new toys. I myslef am WELL INFORMED and know alot about what is and isn't available I cruise the dev sites as much as anyone, but you can't compare a guy doing a course that has been approved by microsoft to me reading a couple of tutorials and playing around with something, to reallt learning it correctly via course. NOW, don't get me wrong. Doing a CERT and then not using your knowledge, or just using BrainDumps is not really getting a CERT in my book. Thats just trying to beat the system. I am talking about real courses, really learning, in order to improve and upgrade your knowledge. Thats my 2 cents. in summary: * a CERT allows you to upgrade you knowledge. * Companies like Micorosft have programs that require CERTs, and if you fit the bill with one of them, you pay just the CERTs which are much less expensive than what you would pay for the same licenses by yourself. (sometime 2,000$ less) and your team feels motivated because you send them to courses and expand their knowledge, which makes them more valuble. Mickey Perlstein Head of R&D www.interlect.co.il
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all a cert is good for is to show to an employer thats it. so when you go for your interview the person doing the hiring is going to see your certified and that will help in this situation because you have documents saying you can do the job. that will set you apart form other aplicents that my not have one. ;) dont know if it helps but its how it goes.
A certification is basically a sheet of paper saying you read some books and took a test. It doesn't actually mean you can apply anything you learned. At my last company we had 2 MCSDs that were completely worthless. They only had the certification and didn't have any real world experience. They did a lot more harm than good because they mislead less technical management. The managers thought these people knew what they were talking about because they had a certification so they just took their lame ideas as facts. Employers who aren't technically savy love certification holders because they simply don't know any better. The only reason to do it would be to earn a higher wage if you could directly tie it to that. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money. I now have my own company and I won't hire someone with a certification unless they have a good amount of real world experience and really good references from prior coworkers or managers. I would hire someone who doesn't even have a high school degree if they could prove their competence and had good references. There is no substitute for real world experience.
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I personally think it's a waste of money. A good, confident programmer doesn't need to be certified with a sheet of paper. NULL
Meat Loaf wrote:
I personally think it's a waste of money
Do U really think that certification doesn't add additional stuff Certified Professionals are more productive than the other one This is how we distinguishes the others. Why do we go/need for Certification? • To achieve standards • In order to compete enough • To prove Unique • To technically grow • To identify qualified people in specific job Please don't discourage others calling it as waste of time "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Hi Igor :) another Aussie!
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: It teaches (not just the course which teaches you to just past the exam) you how to lay things out, look at a project as a whole, correct terminology, etc... I personally disagree. For this one needs to do a project management course, or at least achieve an MCSA (software architect). If one has an MCP in web or winforms it only means she memorised all methods and properties of selected objects.
Yes I agree, i shoudl of stated this more cleary, MCP doesnt tech you much, however, it is the first step. Souly, it wont help you much.
Igor Velikorossov wrote:
Daniel@SA wrote: In my experience, with MCSE/MCSD you can add an extra $5,000 - $10,000 on your yearly income (approx, may be higher, may be less, depending on the position/company). MCSE quite likely will, MCSD... well I actually doubt it.
I cant speak from all experiance, just my own. For this case, it is certiantly the case. but it may be different for all. My personally feeling is, MCP is somewhat worthless. butif you continue on to MCSE and/or MCSD it is. Daniel Brown Enterprise Software Architect
What About MCAD? "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Meat Loaf wrote:
I personally think it's a waste of money
Do U really think that certification doesn't add additional stuff Certified Professionals are more productive than the other one This is how we distinguishes the others. Why do we go/need for Certification? • To achieve standards • In order to compete enough • To prove Unique • To technically grow • To identify qualified people in specific job Please don't discourage others calling it as waste of time "Aim to go where U have never been B4 and Strive to achieve it" http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/dotnetforfreshers http://himabinduvejella.blogspot.com
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Hi, I'm looking for responses from everywhere, but particularly from India. A colleague and I are thinking about MS certification for C#/.NET/SQL server, but since it costs quite a bit and also requires effort, I thought I'd ask here about how useful it actually is. I have 1.5+ years experience, and he has 6+. Useful links will be appreciated. Thanks in advance! :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Here is what it boils down to. Your resume or CV is the tool needed to get you the interview. You have HR people, Directors, and such reviewing your CV/Resume trying to decide which person to bring in to interview. A certification will bring cause you to get more interviews and calls for positions. It is the interview that gets you the job. You decide.