Java and .net
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I just jumped back into Java for one of my classes here at UCSD[^]. I hate it. Java sucks. And Java's generics suck harder. And in general, Java just sucks. Give me C# and .NET any day of the week.
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug. -
Hi everyone, My intention was not to compare all the features of java and .net.But generally there is a feeling(atleast in india) among freshers that, those who choose .net are lazy guys and those who choose java are bright guys. I think there is some reason behind that.now a days in most of the cases a fresher who wants a programming career would not take a java course if he does not have any programming knowledge .because he/she feels that J2EE is tougher.But guys who love programming during their graduation will not hesitate to jump into java. Clearly we can see this when biggies started calling even from 6 months of experienced people in j2ee ,where they would call a .net professional only if he has atleast two years of experience. -- modified at 5:34 Monday 1st May, 2006
jitAtran wrote:
those who choose .net are lazy guys and those who choose java are bright guys
They should torture both camps, by making them learn Scheme or Haskell :P Or some crazy fork of a language cooked up by one of the Professors - I was taught mainly with a Pascal dialect. There was meant to be tutition in Prolog and Lisp too, but the course was becoming increasingly vocational. I think that might be a fundamental issue with the teaching of programming / software engineering - the conflict between acedemic computer science and the vocational skills that you will use for 90% of your work unless you are in a specialist field like compiler design, graphics or AI. My course was a mish mash of both and not in a good way. The vocational stuff was all about 5 years out of date (or just useless, like teaching RAD with Access) and the acedemic stuff remained to theoretical - concurrent programming, networking theory and language / compiler design were all taught with little or no practical application. I'm currently using ANTLR to develop a custom query language for Lucene, and damn am I rusty. As this field is still so young, and so faddy, many courses are teaching a vocational curriculum that is wildly out of date. Be happy that they are offering a course that has any immediately applicable content. I taught myself C++ while at university as I was lucky enough to get a job programming to help with living expenses. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
-- modified at 7:48 Monday 1st May, 2006
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I was speaking about freshers who knows only some C or C++ and plans to make it big.Their attitude is to go for some .net course rather than getting into J2EE ,since they feel J2EE is very difficult.And this genral attitude helps java developers to increase their market value.
jitAtran wrote:
some C or C++
Which are far more difficult languages than either .NET or Java. C has pointers and C++ has pointers and mindblowingly complicated and powerful sideffects of its template mechanism. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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jitAtran wrote:
My intention was not to compare all the features of java and .net.But generally there is a feeling(atleast in india) among freshers that, those who choose .net are lazy guys and those who choose java are bright guys.
Well obviously they aren't very bright. An experienced developer chooses the right tool for the job and doesn't worry about whether they are considered lazy or bright. Both Java and .NET platforms have their own strengths and weaknesses, so you judge which tool to use depending on what your customer requirements are. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Both Java and .NET platforms have their own strengths and weaknesses, so you judge which tool to use depending on what your customer requirements are.
I gather that in the UK City financial sector there has been a trend towards using both Java and .NET - Enterprise Java at the back-end, and ASP.NET or Windows Forms at the front end. Presumably this is because they see as MS being comparatively strong at the GUI/Desktop level with J2EE being comparatively strong on the server-side - or maybe just more mature. Kevin
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Uhmmm... You cannot compare Mono to .NET: Mono is just a copy of the .NET class library and has a C# compiler. The class library is not complete, and it's stuck to .NET 1.1, moreover you have to use GTK# and different namespaces in order to create GUIs. So it's not really usable, unless you have a strict need to make a cross-platform application, but in that case I wouldn't go for .NET nor Mono at all. Maybe Java (God forgive me :-D). IMHO. :) ___________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA]
While I agree that you cannot compare Mono and the .Net Framework, you're wrong in some assumptions: .NET 2.0 support is planned and under heavy work and you can as well run applications built using Windows.Forms, just they don't feel as smooth as native (GTK) apps. And it's going to be better with newer releases. Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
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jitAtran wrote:
among freshers
So then, why is it that Java is taught to freshmen to introduce programming? Keep in mind, teaching Java replaced teaching BASIC. ;P Disclaimer--I really have no idea whether what I just said is accurate Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Keep in mind, teaching Java replaced teaching BASIC
i had 3 years of Modula-2 when i was in school, and no BASIC at all :( Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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jitAtran wrote:
some C or C++
Which are far more difficult languages than either .NET or Java. C has pointers and C++ has pointers and mindblowingly complicated and powerful sideffects of its template mechanism. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
jitAtran wrote: some C or C++ Which are far more difficult languages than either .NET or Java. C has pointers and C++ has pointers and mindblowingly complicated and powerful sideffects of its template mechanism
Sorry dear ...I must have changed it into some basics of C or C++.Generally in india even if you are studying for electrical engineering or mechanical engineering you will have to learn C or C++ . -- modified at 10:02 Monday 1st May, 2006
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While I agree that you cannot compare Mono and the .Net Framework, you're wrong in some assumptions: .NET 2.0 support is planned and under heavy work and you can as well run applications built using Windows.Forms, just they don't feel as smooth as native (GTK) apps. And it's going to be better with newer releases. Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
Luca Leonardo Scorcia wrote:
you can as well run applications built using Windows.Forms, just they don't feel as smooth as native (GTK) apps.
Can you run them cross platform? It was my understanding tha gtk was needed if you wanted to target a nonwindows desktop.
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Luca Leonardo Scorcia wrote:
you can as well run applications built using Windows.Forms, just they don't feel as smooth as native (GTK) apps.
Can you run them cross platform? It was my understanding tha gtk was needed if you wanted to target a nonwindows desktop.
Yes, you can. Of course, many advanced features are under development, but you can easily take a dialog based Windows.Forms binary and run it under mono. They have rewritten the entire Windows.Forms using GDI+ calls. Slow, but works (mostly). Check out the screenshots on the mono-project web site. Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
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Yes, you can. Of course, many advanced features are under development, but you can easily take a dialog based Windows.Forms binary and run it under mono. They have rewritten the entire Windows.Forms using GDI+ calls. Slow, but works (mostly). Check out the screenshots on the mono-project web site. Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
I have been hering about Mono and DotGNU for quite a long time.But nothing really comes out into the developer's arena. Also mono is from novell which owns Suse Linux.So what would be microsoft's real strategy. Evidently projects which aims platform independance are choosing java.Is "windows" killing .net. -- modified at 10:41 Monday 1st May, 2006
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I just jumped back into Java for one of my classes here at UCSD[^]. I hate it. Java sucks. And Java's generics suck harder. And in general, Java just sucks. Give me C# and .NET any day of the week.
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug.David Stone wrote:
I hate it. Java sucks. And Java's generics suck harder. And in general, Java just sucks. Give me C# and .NET any day of the week.
You've got that right David. I tried out Net Bean 5.0 from Sun over the weekend and back to VS2005 I shall go :) Paul
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Hi everyone, My intention was not to compare all the features of java and .net.But generally there is a feeling(atleast in india) among freshers that, those who choose .net are lazy guys and those who choose java are bright guys. I think there is some reason behind that.now a days in most of the cases a fresher who wants a programming career would not take a java course if he does not have any programming knowledge .because he/she feels that J2EE is tougher.But guys who love programming during their graduation will not hesitate to jump into java. Clearly we can see this when biggies started calling even from 6 months of experienced people in j2ee ,where they would call a .net professional only if he has atleast two years of experience. -- modified at 5:34 Monday 1st May, 2006
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Goes straight to my sig :laugh: Isaac Sasson "I hate it. Java sucks. And Java's generics suck harder. And in general, Java just sucks." - David Stone, The Lounge (May 1st 2006)
heh. Glad my late night rantings were of some use. :rolleyes:
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug. -
David Stone wrote:
I hate it. Java sucks. And Java's generics suck harder. And in general, Java just sucks. Give me C# and .NET any day of the week.
You've got that right David. I tried out Net Bean 5.0 from Sun over the weekend and back to VS2005 I shall go :) Paul
computerguru92382 wrote:
I tried out Net Bean 5.0 from Sun
Oh wow. I'm not even that adventurous. I'm using Eclipse 3.2 RC2 to code...and while Eclipse is a decent IDE (It's got a crapload more in the way of refactoring. Such fine grained code style prefs too.), I still have to code in...Java. X|
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug. -
computerguru92382 wrote:
I tried out Net Bean 5.0 from Sun
Oh wow. I'm not even that adventurous. I'm using Eclipse 3.2 RC2 to code...and while Eclipse is a decent IDE (It's got a crapload more in the way of refactoring. Such fine grained code style prefs too.), I still have to code in...Java. X|
Oh geez... the forum keeps spinning... you'll take care o f it i'm sure, c'ause ... yeah, i neede this. *cough* anyway good job finding the bug.
-Shog9 on...a Firefox bug.David Stone wrote:
I'm using Eclipse 3.2 RC2 to code...and while Eclipse is a decent IDE
I've had to investigate Eclipse for my Master's Thesis and it seems pretty alright. PJC
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jitAtran wrote:
some C or C++
Which are far more difficult languages than either .NET or Java. C has pointers and C++ has pointers and mindblowingly complicated and powerful sideffects of its template mechanism. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Personally I still think pointers are actually easier to understand than C#, VB and Java's reference semantics. There's a syntactic difference between manipulating an area of memory ('object' if you prefer) directly and manipulating one at arm's length, through a reference. Most pointer-based languages do have the problem that you could be manipulating variables of a given type either directly or through a reference, while C# and VB make a clear distinction between value and reference types (
structandclassrespectively in C#). The CLR allows you to 'box' a value type to use it as a reference type, however. Having said that, I learned pointers using Ada, which does not have any syntactic difference at the point of use to indicate use of a pointer. C's problems typically come from the ability to create highly convoluted declarations - these are not necessary, it's perfectly possible to write clear C code - and explicit use of memory deallocation routines. However, a correct C#, VB.NET or Java program must make use of the Dispose pattern, for all but trivial programs. In C++ one can mask most use of the memory allocator and deallocator, and indeed any other resource deallocation, using the Resource Allocation Is Initialisation pattern. This pattern is so engrained in C++ developers, generally, that they're not even aware it's a pattern. Simply, you use a class to manage the memory or other resource; the class destructor frees the resource. If an object of such a class is created on the stack, the compiler automatically generates code to call the destructor on exit of the block. If created on the heap withnew, the destructor is called when thedeleteoperator is used. Diligent use of this pattern normally leaves very few objects whose lifetimes are managed with explicitnewanddeletestatements. C and C++ both have pointer arithmetic, and give no warning of writing outside the bounds of an array or other memory allocation. The former is not required in writing a program - pointer arithmetic can always be substituted with array indexing, and compilers are generally very good at converting back to pointer arithmetic if possible. The latter requires some discipline in tracking the amount of space allocated; again, in C++ you can build a class that manages this appropriately, and the Standard Library and other commonly-used libraries have classes that will meet most users' needs. Stability. What a