The language barrier!
-
VuNic wrote:
And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
Being from Canada, I feel qualified to answer this question. Canada has two offical languages, English and French. Depending upon where you live in Canada, one language or the other is normally dominant. Moving from the East to the West... the Atlantic provinces (Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island) are mostly going to be English. New Brunswick, which borders Nova Scotia and Quebec, both are spoken - mostly English in the East, moving to mostly French in the West. In Quebec, mostly French, but still pockets of English. Ontario - Southern region, English; Northern region - mixed. The city I grew up in, North Bay, had an English to French mix of 75% / 25%, but surrouding communities were mostly French. As you move further West, it is almost always English.
I heard that once of the major cities in Canada (either Montreal or Quebec) forbids the use of the English language. They will actually fine stores who have english text displayed in their windows. Is this still the case? Regards, Brigg Thorp Senior Software Engineer Timex Corporation
-
While reading those threads below about using English as a universal language, I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India. In fact, when Smitha and I were planning to move out of Kerala for a while, we abandoned any plans of moving to other Indian states, since we'd have a serious communication issue, specially since I don't speak Hindi and Smitha's Hindi would be highly ineffective except for very basic sentences. Our only option was to move to an English-speaking country. Accents may differ, but it's still the same language. In fact we had a lot of trouble at the Chandigarh airport (we went there for Canadian Visa stamping) because no one in the airport spoke English (at least the ones we met) and we had a tough time figuring out where the baggage claim was. We also had a lot of trouble telling autorickshaw drivers where we needed to go, buying stuff from shops, ordering food, asking for drinking water etc. [mod] Here's a partial list of Indian languages :- http://www.kamat.com/indica/diversity/languages.htm[^] [/mod] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!-- modified at 12:12 Friday 5th May, 2006
Temporarily suspends the real post which should have been made All Indian langauges are came out from Sanskrit or 'Devenagiri'.Though Tamilians would not agree..And hindi is very close to sanskrit.The letters are same,many words are similar (eg: kamalam-kamal,ambaram-ambar) and most of these words are also there in almost all the languages.and all the languages did evolve as an after effect of some the cross-cultures. But I would say that you can easily learn a new Indian language.it would not take as much time that you require to learn a foriegn language. As I said in a previous post,being an indian if you learn hindi you can very well understand a hindi film.But when are you going to undersatnd all the dialouges of an english film without subtitles. But we are learning English,since English rules the market.I think by the next five years India will overtake US and UK in terms of the number of english speaking people. And who knows...may be after some 20 years they will have to study Indias updations in english grammer rules in English in their language classes.
-
Yes Nish, that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south. It's big problem here. Without english , damn I can talk only to myself. Next to my desk, sits a Bengali,a Punjabi, a mallu, a guy from Orissa, andhra, maharastra and even an Assamese is here. Its quite a colorful mixture. And moreover our clients roam around. Without any question,English would suit the best. We may brag that we have more than 200 languages with us, but its of no use unless we learn all the 200 !, but anyway people in North can manage somehow with their Hindi. They get along easily with Hindi like lagauages Bengali,Punjabi). And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
--[V]--
Before IT boom Tamilians used to go to Mumbai without knowing a single word in hindi.Within a month they would master the language. Now the scenario is changed all because of the market trends(due to imperialism-in a communist perspective).People only like to speak in English and they love to roam through the Hot chennai streets wearing full sleave shirt and a tie in the neck.People like me are hearing Toffel cassets regularly. But still a mechanical engineer who got his job in the steel plants of Gujarth and MadhyaPradesh have to learn Hindi.
-
I heard that once of the major cities in Canada (either Montreal or Quebec) forbids the use of the English language. They will actually fine stores who have english text displayed in their windows. Is this still the case? Regards, Brigg Thorp Senior Software Engineer Timex Corporation
As I understand it, the language laws in province of Quebec (not just the big cities) require French to be the prominant language on store signs. Other languages can be displayed, but French must be prominent. And, that applies for ALL other languages. A Chinese food store where NO ONE speaks French, must have the French displayed dominantly (which usually means larger font size).
-
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
because we have 200 languages in India.
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages? (no, don't tell me, there's a wikipedia link, right?) Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
What's the history of your country's languages?
All the 4 states in south India got different languages (even the script). But in the case of North India which got more states but they also different languages but they somehow all connect to Hindi (National Lanugage). So if a person knows 'Hindi' can survive easily from Bombay to Delhi to Calcutta. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
-
VuNic wrote:
And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
Being from Canada, I feel qualified to answer this question. Canada has two offical languages, English and French. Depending upon where you live in Canada, one language or the other is normally dominant. Moving from the East to the West... the Atlantic provinces (Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island) are mostly going to be English. New Brunswick, which borders Nova Scotia and Quebec, both are spoken - mostly English in the East, moving to mostly French in the West. In Quebec, mostly French, but still pockets of English. Ontario - Southern region, English; Northern region - mixed. The city I grew up in, North Bay, had an English to French mix of 75% / 25%, but surrouding communities were mostly French. As you move further West, it is almost always English.
-
Temporarily suspends the real post which should have been made All Indian langauges are came out from Sanskrit or 'Devenagiri'.Though Tamilians would not agree..And hindi is very close to sanskrit.The letters are same,many words are similar (eg: kamalam-kamal,ambaram-ambar) and most of these words are also there in almost all the languages.and all the languages did evolve as an after effect of some the cross-cultures. But I would say that you can easily learn a new Indian language.it would not take as much time that you require to learn a foriegn language. As I said in a previous post,being an indian if you learn hindi you can very well understand a hindi film.But when are you going to undersatnd all the dialouges of an english film without subtitles. But we are learning English,since English rules the market.I think by the next five years India will overtake US and UK in terms of the number of english speaking people. And who knows...may be after some 20 years they will have to study Indias updations in english grammer rules in English in their language classes.
jithAtran wrote:
Though Tamilians would not agree
I am not a Tamilian, but I agree that Tamil does not come from Sanskrit. It has different roots. Some people think that Tamil is the oldest language. Even the script has many different concepts. I tried learning it but gave up.
-
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
because we have 200 languages in India.
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages? (no, don't tell me, there's a wikipedia link, right?) Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages?
There are only 22 official languages .There are some other languages also which includes some tribal languges .But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
-
Yes Nish, that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south. It's big problem here. Without english , damn I can talk only to myself. Next to my desk, sits a Bengali,a Punjabi, a mallu, a guy from Orissa, andhra, maharastra and even an Assamese is here. Its quite a colorful mixture. And moreover our clients roam around. Without any question,English would suit the best. We may brag that we have more than 200 languages with us, but its of no use unless we learn all the 200 !, but anyway people in North can manage somehow with their Hindi. They get along easily with Hindi like lagauages Bengali,Punjabi). And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
--[V]--
VuNic wrote:
that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south
Except for Hyderabad (which is in South India, more Muslims live here). Where 'Hindi'/'Urdu' language mix is more popular than 'English'/'Telugu'. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages?
There are only 22 official languages .There are some other languages also which includes some tribal languges .But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
jithAtran wrote:
.But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
Exactly. Nish trying to exaggregate the number of languages. I haven't met or seen any tribal (speaking different dialect) working in the IT environment. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
-
jithAtran wrote:
Though Tamilians would not agree
I am not a Tamilian, but I agree that Tamil does not come from Sanskrit. It has different roots. Some people think that Tamil is the oldest language. Even the script has many different concepts. I tried learning it but gave up.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Tamil does not come from Sanskrit
Yes. But it has few words sounding like sanskrit. like words with "ish..", "sha.." sounds.
--[V]--
-
While reading those threads below about using English as a universal language, I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India. In fact, when Smitha and I were planning to move out of Kerala for a while, we abandoned any plans of moving to other Indian states, since we'd have a serious communication issue, specially since I don't speak Hindi and Smitha's Hindi would be highly ineffective except for very basic sentences. Our only option was to move to an English-speaking country. Accents may differ, but it's still the same language. In fact we had a lot of trouble at the Chandigarh airport (we went there for Canadian Visa stamping) because no one in the airport spoke English (at least the ones we met) and we had a tough time figuring out where the baggage claim was. We also had a lot of trouble telling autorickshaw drivers where we needed to go, buying stuff from shops, ordering food, asking for drinking water etc. [mod] Here's a partial list of Indian languages :- http://www.kamat.com/indica/diversity/languages.htm[^] [/mod] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!-- modified at 12:12 Friday 5th May, 2006
Imagine trying to work with Indian contractors trying to build the largest system your company had ever undertaken to write. You think driving directions are hard... Also, just because someone can speak english isn't a guarantee anymore. I think English is becoming like chinese. With all the dialects that come into play because your own language accents strongly influence your grasp of English and that goes both ways. English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
I only read CP for the articles. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
-
Imagine trying to work with Indian contractors trying to build the largest system your company had ever undertaken to write. You think driving directions are hard... Also, just because someone can speak english isn't a guarantee anymore. I think English is becoming like chinese. With all the dialects that come into play because your own language accents strongly influence your grasp of English and that goes both ways. English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
I only read CP for the articles. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
Try to talking to somebody in Carribean. We got some clients there. I have to keep ear near the phone to understand what they are saying. They speak in English only but entirely different dialect. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
-
VuNic wrote:
that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south
Except for Hyderabad (which is in South India, more Muslims live here). Where 'Hindi'/'Urdu' language mix is more popular than 'English'/'Telugu'. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
Yeah, that's true Kant, a guy here from Hyderabad, talks both in Telugu and Hindi ( but my Delhi friends say what he speaks differs a lot from their version)very well.. and after coming to chennai he's learnt a good Tamil too. Now he can talk 4 languages very well (English,Hindi,Tamil,Telugu)
--[V]--
-
Imagine trying to work with Indian contractors trying to build the largest system your company had ever undertaken to write. You think driving directions are hard... Also, just because someone can speak english isn't a guarantee anymore. I think English is becoming like chinese. With all the dialects that come into play because your own language accents strongly influence your grasp of English and that goes both ways. English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
I only read CP for the articles. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
Yeah, sometimes Americans (and Canadians) may use a phrase or figure of speech that's unfamiliar. It's the same when you speak with North Indians, because they use a few Hindi words and Hindi-isms in their English which confuses things. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Marc Clifton wrote:
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages?
There are only 22 official languages .There are some other languages also which includes some tribal languges .But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
jithAtran wrote:
There are only 22 official languages
Ptth. What a lazy whiner Nish is. 200 languages indeed - any fool can learn 22 languages... :rolleyes:
----
-
code-frog wrote:
English speaking Indians probably have a harder time with English speaking Americans than they do their English speaking peers.
Try to talking to somebody in Carribean. We got some clients there. I have to keep ear near the phone to understand what they are saying. They speak in English only but entirely different dialect. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
Kant wrote:
Try to talking to somebody in Carribean.
Is that same as how Courtney Walsh speaks? Or say Mike Holding :-) His commentary is cool though! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
jithAtran wrote:
.But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
Exactly. Nish trying to exaggregate the number of languages. I haven't met or seen any tribal (speaking different dialect) working in the IT environment. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
Kant wrote:
Exactly. Nish trying to exaggregate the number of languages.
:omg: No I am not. The actual number of languages in India would be 1000+, but there are at least 200 mainstream dialects. Some tribals in kerala speak variants of Malayalam that are totally different from what I speak. From wikipedia : In all, there are 24 languages which are spoken by a million or more people, in addition to thousands of smaller languages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India[^] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
jithAtran wrote:
.But anyway i dont think that it would cross 50,not even 30 I suppose.
Exactly. Nish trying to exaggregate the number of languages. I haven't met or seen any tribal (speaking different dialect) working in the IT environment. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
Kant wrote:
Exactly. Nish trying to exaggregate the number of languages. I haven't met or seen any tribal (speaking different dialect) working in the IT environment.
Another good link (via Rama) : http://www.kamat.com/indica/diversity/languages.htm[^] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
jithAtran wrote:
There are only 22 official languages
Ptth. What a lazy whiner Nish is. 200 languages indeed - any fool can learn 22 languages... :rolleyes:
----
Shog9 wrote:
Ptth. What a lazy whiner Nish is. 200 languages indeed - any fool can learn 22 languages...
:-D Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!