The language barrier!
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Kant wrote:
How many have you encountered at work?
Not talking about work - but in general. At work, everyone would speak English, so there's never a language barrier. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Not talking about work - but in general. At work, everyone would speak English, so there's never a language barrier.
We are not talking about in 'general'. Let me refresh your memory. I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India CPians from Indian are the folks who are in IT field. So I am reading it as 'official languages' or 'languages spoken by IT folks'. So counting 200+ languages doesn't make any sense. That's why I asked how many you encountered at work who speak not an official language from their home state. I know a friend who was born in Andhra but raised in Bombay. He talks in fluently in Hindi, but their telugu is not real 'Telugu'. But he speaks that language at home only. At work he uses only 'Hindi' or 'English'. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
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jithAtran wrote:
Since kasarkode and northern kerala has a closest affinity to karnataka some kannada influence would be there in their language.But that does not make kasarkode malayalam as a new language called kasa-layalam.
It's not Malayalam at all. I am sure those languages will have their own names - an expert might know what they are. And a Mohanlal movie will only be watched by Malayalam speakers. People who speak other languages wont bother with a Malayalam movie.
jithAtran wrote:
Its better not to rope in tribal people into this as long as they are not in the mainstream
Why not? They are in India too. And their languages are Indian languages too - though not officially recognized. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Mohanlal movie will only be watched by Malayalam speakers. People who speak other languages wont bother with a Malayalam movie.
Yea..but those who speak a langauge which is similar to malayalam (but not malyalam )would also watch his movie.right? Then they are also malayalis
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Not talking about work - but in general. At work, everyone would speak English, so there's never a language barrier.
We are not talking about in 'general'. Let me refresh your memory. I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India CPians from Indian are the folks who are in IT field. So I am reading it as 'official languages' or 'languages spoken by IT folks'. So counting 200+ languages doesn't make any sense. That's why I asked how many you encountered at work who speak not an official language from their home state. I know a friend who was born in Andhra but raised in Bombay. He talks in fluently in Hindi, but their telugu is not real 'Telugu'. But he speaks that language at home only. At work he uses only 'Hindi' or 'English'. [Quick Reply][Reply][Email][View Thread][Get Link][Bookmark]
Kant wrote:
We are not talking about in 'general'. Let me refresh your memory. I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India
Looks like you didn't understand that sentence correctly. I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India I was mentioning Vivek's comments and I quote his original comments below :- You know one thing, without English I wont be able to talk to Nish, Smitha , Thomas George or any other Indians here.. We all talk different languages(More than 250 languages). So thanks for the British East India Company !! He actually said 250, but I mis-quoted him as 200! And after I quoted (indirectly - not exact quote) Vivek, I continued about how it's generally difficult to communicate in India once you leave your home state. You just held on to that first sentence and decided to ignore the rest of my post! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Mohanlal movie will only be watched by Malayalam speakers. People who speak other languages wont bother with a Malayalam movie.
Yea..but those who speak a langauge which is similar to malayalam (but not malyalam )would also watch his movie.right? Then they are also malayalis
jithAtran wrote:
Yea..but those who speak a langauge which is similar to malayalam (but not malyalam )would also watch his movie.right?
Not if they don't understand 75% of the conversation.
jithAtran wrote:
Then they are also malayalis
They are not technically Malayalis, though they are Keralites. But even if you don't speak Malayalam, you are called a Malayali if you are from Kerala. Regards, Nish
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I know Devanagiri is a script.what i meant is,both sanskrit and hindi came follows the same script. You can understand a hindi film easily since the root of that language is there in your blood But English is foreign language.U can very well understand Hydrebad Blues or Monsoon Wedding But its not easy for an indian to understand the language of schindler's list or mission impossible unless he has not gone for an american accent training.Or if he has been watching english movies right from his child hood. Last week even with subtitles I coulnot understand "Momento" fully(Its just my case..leave it)
jithAtran wrote:
You can understand a hindi film easily since the root of that language is there in your blood
I watch and enjoy Tamil movies, but I dislike watching Hindi movies because I don't understand 90% of the conversation and sometimes misinterpret the story line (most Hindi movies may not have much of a story though).
jithAtran wrote:
But English is foreign language.U can very well understand Hydrebad Blues or Monsoon Wedding But its not easy for an indian to understand the language of schindler's list or mission impossible unless he has not gone for an american accent training.Or if he has been watching english movies from his child hood. Last week even with subtitles I coulnot understand "Momento" fully(Its just my case..leave it)
That is correct. Even if you speak English well, it may be hard to fully understand an American accent, if you are not used to it. But in Trivandrum, where I grew up, English movies were always far more popular than Hindi movies. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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jithAtran wrote:
Yea..but those who speak a langauge which is similar to malayalam (but not malyalam )would also watch his movie.right?
Not if they don't understand 75% of the conversation.
jithAtran wrote:
Then they are also malayalis
They are not technically Malayalis, though they are Keralites. But even if you don't speak Malayalam, you are called a Malayali if you are from Kerala. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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Yes Nish, that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south. It's big problem here. Without english , damn I can talk only to myself. Next to my desk, sits a Bengali,a Punjabi, a mallu, a guy from Orissa, andhra, maharastra and even an Assamese is here. Its quite a colorful mixture. And moreover our clients roam around. Without any question,English would suit the best. We may brag that we have more than 200 languages with us, but its of no use unless we learn all the 200 !, but anyway people in North can manage somehow with their Hindi. They get along easily with Hindi like lagauages Bengali,Punjabi). And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
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VuNic wrote:
And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
I've never met anyone in Toronto who couldn't speak English. So far anyway :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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Can you imagine that there would be a 25 year old youth in a state of India who has not seen a film which has been made in the language of his own state .
jithAtran wrote:
Can you imagine that there would be a 25 year old youth in a state of India who has not seen a film which has been made in the language of his own state .
Yeah, sure I can. In fact, I knew a few Bengali Keralites who never went to Malayalam movies :-) They don't watch Bengali movies either - since their basic culture is Kerala-like, except for their spoken language. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
The northernmost district of Kerala, Kasargode (spelling may vary) has a large number of Tulu speakers. Its adjacent district in Karnataka, Managalore is a Tulu majority district.
Yeah, one of my primary school classmates used to speak Tulu. Btw, Konkani is a language, right? And there's a non-related language called Kongini spoken by a group called Kongini-Brahmins. Kongini is similar to Tulu I believe. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Btw, Konkani is a language, right? And there's a non-related language called Kongini spoken by a group called Kongini-Brahmins. Kongini is similar to Tulu I believe.
I doubt if Konkani is related to Tulu. :~ I do know that it is *very* closely related to Marathi. So closely, in fact, that until a couple of decades back, it was considered simply a dialect of Marathi. I can understand Konkani quite well, though I've never studied or learnt the language, and never had any Konkani friends either. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
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While reading those threads below about using English as a universal language, I was interested by Vivek's comments about how all the Indian CPians would have to use English to communicate with each other because we have 200 languages in India. In fact, when Smitha and I were planning to move out of Kerala for a while, we abandoned any plans of moving to other Indian states, since we'd have a serious communication issue, specially since I don't speak Hindi and Smitha's Hindi would be highly ineffective except for very basic sentences. Our only option was to move to an English-speaking country. Accents may differ, but it's still the same language. In fact we had a lot of trouble at the Chandigarh airport (we went there for Canadian Visa stamping) because no one in the airport spoke English (at least the ones we met) and we had a tough time figuring out where the baggage claim was. We also had a lot of trouble telling autorickshaw drivers where we needed to go, buying stuff from shops, ordering food, asking for drinking water etc. [mod] Here's a partial list of Indian languages :- http://www.kamat.com/indica/diversity/languages.htm[^] [/mod] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!-- modified at 12:12 Friday 5th May, 2006
You know, that is what is so great about things like CP. All kinds of different cultures and such to interact with. I had no idea that India had so many dialects and sub-dialects. Seems odd to me that you could go on vacation in your own country and not be able to communicate. Learn something new everyday. Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert.
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:) there is always somebody who would agree with you and somebody who wouldn't. Actually It would be good to hold on to 24 official languages, or imagine what would happen, if every other language would start getting official status. As there are proponents of every language spoken out there. :-D And in my opinion, issue of language is overbeaten in India. whatever language you speak people always find a way to communicate. It's amazing. Ankita
ankita patel wrote:
And in my opinion, issue of language is overbeaten in India. whatever language you speak people always find a way to communicate. It's amazing.
Exactly. :) Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
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jithAtran wrote:
Can you imagine that there would be a 25 year old youth in a state of India who has not seen a film which has been made in the language of his own state .
Yeah, sure I can. In fact, I knew a few Bengali Keralites who never went to Malayalam movies :-) They don't watch Bengali movies either - since their basic culture is Kerala-like, except for their spoken language. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!They are originally hailing from some other states.But they would have been well educated and probably would have had a language which is purely official. And kerala is a 100% literecy state and censuses are done correctly.So if all those people whom you are mentioning have been listed as keralites in the records(Even they used to record tribal people)then definitely they would have been taught the language. Even tribal people of kerala know how to read and write.But again there will not be that much tribal people in any of the states.and the rest of the mainstream people can very well understand atleast one official language -- modified at 14:18 Friday 5th May, 2006
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Btw, Konkani is a language, right? And there's a non-related language called Kongini spoken by a group called Kongini-Brahmins. Kongini is similar to Tulu I believe.
I doubt if Konkani is related to Tulu. :~ I do know that it is *very* closely related to Marathi. So closely, in fact, that until a couple of decades back, it was considered simply a dialect of Marathi. I can understand Konkani quite well, though I've never studied or learnt the language, and never had any Konkani friends either. Cheers, Vikram.
I don't know and you don't either. Militant Agnostic
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
I doubt if Konkani is related to Tulu.
Not Konkani. Kongini is related to Tulu. Kongini and Konkani are unrelated languages. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but there are sub-dialects
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I couldn't understand what the guy at the railway station was saying.
Sometimes, I see kids speaking a variant of english that I barely understand I would also argue that the damned SMS-SPK is a dialect of english which I barely understand. Ever heard a real Newcastle or Brummie accent? Heck I can barely understand my Glasweigan Mother-in-law sometimes :D So it just goes to show, even in English we have dialects which are at times difficult to overcome...and thats in a country as small as England! Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
J4amieC wrote:
Heck I can barely understand my Glasweigan Mother-in-law sometimes
There was this book that I read a couple of months ago, Buddha Da[^], by Anne Donovan, is written completely in the Glaswegian dialect. You gotta read it! It goes like this: They were sittin cross-legged on the flair in fronty the coffin and they were singin. Ah was aboot tae tell them tae stop, tae get oot afore there was any mair trouble, but somehow ah couldnae. Ah just stood there listeninn. Don't know whit they were singin, but it seemed tae haud me in a kind of spell. I just loved the book! Cheers Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach -- modified at 15:45 Friday 5th May, 2006
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Yes Nish, that's why people in the North keep living in the North and people in the south keep living in the south. It's big problem here. Without english , damn I can talk only to myself. Next to my desk, sits a Bengali,a Punjabi, a mallu, a guy from Orissa, andhra, maharastra and even an Assamese is here. Its quite a colorful mixture. And moreover our clients roam around. Without any question,English would suit the best. We may brag that we have more than 200 languages with us, but its of no use unless we learn all the 200 !, but anyway people in North can manage somehow with their Hindi. They get along easily with Hindi like lagauages Bengali,Punjabi). And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
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VuNic wrote:
but anyway people in North can manage somehow with their Hindi. They get along easily with Hindi like lagauages Bengali,Punjabi).
Thirty years ago, in Calcutta you could ask for directions in English if you didn't know Bengali and you would get a polite answer. If you asked in Hindi, there will be some mutterings about the "Hindustani" and there would be no response! Those were the days!
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Yeah, that's true Kant, a guy here from Hyderabad, talks both in Telugu and Hindi ( but my Delhi friends say what he speaks differs a lot from their version)very well.. and after coming to chennai he's learnt a good Tamil too. Now he can talk 4 languages very well (English,Hindi,Tamil,Telugu)
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VuNic wrote:
but my Delhi friends say what he speaks differs a lot from their version
You better believe it. On a train to Bombay from Madras, there was this Telugu woman who got in at Cudappah who was talikng to the porter in Hindi/Urdu... except that instead of saying "idher" and "udher" she used "ikkada" and "akkada" right in the middle of her Hindi sentences. Strangest Hindi I have ever heard. I had to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't dreaming. :-D
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VuNic wrote:
And btw in canada how often you'd meet french-speaking people?
I've never met anyone in Toronto who couldn't speak English. So far anyway :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I've never met anyone in Toronto who couldn't speak English.
Sri Lankan Tamil is the first language of Toronto. Go down to Gerard Street if you don't believe me.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Wow. How'd that happen? Seriously. What's the history of your country's languages? (no, don't tell me, there's a wikipedia link, right?)
Actually, the official total may only be 40 or so, but there are sub-dialects, and languages spoken in low numbers. For instance, my native tongue is Malayalam, but it's spoken differently in northern Kerala, and when I visited my parents a few years ago when they were living there, I couldn't understand what the guy at the railway station was saying. It almost sounded like a different language. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
when I visited my parents a few years ago when they were living there, I couldn't understand what the guy at the railway station was saying
Too much C++ and too little Malayalam in your daily conversations caused that problem! :laugh:
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
here are languages related to Malayalam, that's spoken in parts of Kerala which are not Malayalam
Can you please quote an example?.I mean,A place in kerala where they speak a language which is not malayalam but something related to malayalam
In Karnataka, that would be Tulu. A different language with no written form but currently written in Kannada script. A native Tulu speaker (who studied for two years in Trichy) told me that there were more similarities between Tulu and Tamil than between Tulu and Kannada yet the West Coast where Tulu is spoken is separated from Tamil Nadu by Malayalam and Kannada speaking areas.
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ankita patel wrote:
I agree with Nish here.
Glad to see that. I was getting a little frustrated with everyone holding on to the "24 official languages" point :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Well, Nagaland has so many different languages that they decided English would be their official language, the only state in India to choose English for that role!