Scissors removed from patient's stomach
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The logic here is: If a father is willing to pay a sum near 25 lakhs as capitation fee for a medical seat ,he would also able to understand whether his child can really pass the exams and become a doctor. If the boy is a real fool then normally parents would not waste that much money. And in many cases they would have their own hospital too where the will squeeze the patients for the money
jithAtran - ii wrote:
If a father is willing to pay a sum near 25 lakhs as capitation fee for a medical seat ,he would also able to understand whether his child can really pass the exams and become a doctor.
If becoming a good doctor is all about passing the medical exams [and by the way, what is the mimum pass mark - 45%?], how easy things would be. Have you seen the kind of kids that go to Karanataka based medical colleges by paying lakhs as capitation fee? - Smitha
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
If a father is willing to pay a sum near 25 lakhs as capitation fee for a medical seat ,he would also able to understand whether his child can really pass the exams and become a doctor.
If becoming a good doctor is all about passing the medical exams [and by the way, what is the mimum pass mark - 45%?], how easy things would be. Have you seen the kind of kids that go to Karanataka based medical colleges by paying lakhs as capitation fee? - Smitha
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OK....Ok... agreed but:^) A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor. But a 10th just pass SC student can get admission in a medical college and even if he passes the 5 year degree with 10 years ,he will get job in the government medical college. and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
If a father is willing to pay a sum near 25 lakhs as capitation fee for a medical seat ,he would also able to understand whether his child can really pass the exams and become a doctor. If the boy is a real fool then normally parents would not waste that much money.
Actually, in many such medical schools, the kids are given pass grades (since they've paid such high amounts).
jithAtran - ii wrote:
And in many cases they would have their own hospital too where the will squeeze the patients for the money
And that is even worse. Stuff like this is worse than reservation. With reservation, while they get a medical seat, eventually they have to pass the same exams meritoriously - they are not given free pass grades. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
jithAtran - ii wrote: And in many cases they would have their own hospital too where the will squeeze the patients for the money And that is even worse. Stuff like this is worse than reservation.
Yeah ..this is another topic to discuss
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Trollslayer wrote:
There is a nurse who's job it is to count everything before they close up to prevent this!
All the good nurses in Kerala (the state where this happened) are in the United States or in the Gulf countries :sigh: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
OK....Ok... agreed but:^) A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor. But a 10th just pass SC student can get admission in a medical college and even if he passes the 5 year degree with 10 years ,he will get job in the government medical college. and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
jithAtran - ii wrote:
and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude? In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son]. When you visit a foreign country, suppose someone looks at your face and tells you "Aren't you the kind of people who'd burn people and kids?", will you be okay with it? So even if that doc is a rservation candidate, no one has the right to criticise his community. There are hundred of docs who are drunkards or careless otherwise - who were meritorious students. We hear about lots of errors happening in our government hospitals and not all of it are done by lower caste doctors. Most of our plotical leaders take huge bribes, most of them, as a matter of fact, are from upper class communities - does that mean upper caste people are looters? Should we ban upper catse politicians and elect lower caste leaders so our nation can wipe out bribery?
jithAtran - ii wrote:
A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor.
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition [which might be half the amount your mother spends]. If you tell him about the jewellery expenses, he might think your mother's brain is made of clay, no offence meant, to spend so much money on something which isn't worth half the amount [considering the taxes and the making costs that go into the jewellery's cost]. We are talking about rich NRIs for whom 25 lakhs is sometimes 10% their annual income [or even more]. And as you know, a medical graduation is amatter of status for a lot of people. Why wouldn't someone who buy a Mercedes for 35 lakhs pay 25 lakhs for a medical degree for his son/daughter? We are talking about rich NRIs and big shots here - not our next door neighbours. And a totally different question which I have always wanted to ask people who oppose reservation: Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5% reservation for Post-grad courses for Indian graduates - and they set the entry conditions for those seats to s
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude? In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son]. When you visit a foreign country, suppose someone looks at your face and tells you "Aren't you the kind of people who'd burn people and kids?", will you be okay with it? So even if that doc is a rservation candidate, no one has the right to criticise his community. There are hundred of docs who are drunkards or careless otherwise - who were meritorious students. We hear about lots of errors happening in our government hospitals and not all of it are done by lower caste doctors. Most of our plotical leaders take huge bribes, most of them, as a matter of fact, are from upper class communities - does that mean upper caste people are looters? Should we ban upper catse politicians and elect lower caste leaders so our nation can wipe out bribery?
jithAtran - ii wrote:
A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor.
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition [which might be half the amount your mother spends]. If you tell him about the jewellery expenses, he might think your mother's brain is made of clay, no offence meant, to spend so much money on something which isn't worth half the amount [considering the taxes and the making costs that go into the jewellery's cost]. We are talking about rich NRIs for whom 25 lakhs is sometimes 10% their annual income [or even more]. And as you know, a medical graduation is amatter of status for a lot of people. Why wouldn't someone who buy a Mercedes for 35 lakhs pay 25 lakhs for a medical degree for his son/daughter? We are talking about rich NRIs and big shots here - not our next door neighbours. And a totally different question which I have always wanted to ask people who oppose reservation: Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5% reservation for Post-grad courses for Indian graduates - and they set the entry conditions for those seats to s
Aha, now I see why Nish turned pro-reservation ;)
Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Blog | My Articles | WinMacro
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude? In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son]. When you visit a foreign country, suppose someone looks at your face and tells you "Aren't you the kind of people who'd burn people and kids?", will you be okay with it? So even if that doc is a rservation candidate, no one has the right to criticise his community. There are hundred of docs who are drunkards or careless otherwise - who were meritorious students. We hear about lots of errors happening in our government hospitals and not all of it are done by lower caste doctors. Most of our plotical leaders take huge bribes, most of them, as a matter of fact, are from upper class communities - does that mean upper caste people are looters? Should we ban upper catse politicians and elect lower caste leaders so our nation can wipe out bribery?
jithAtran - ii wrote:
A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor.
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition [which might be half the amount your mother spends]. If you tell him about the jewellery expenses, he might think your mother's brain is made of clay, no offence meant, to spend so much money on something which isn't worth half the amount [considering the taxes and the making costs that go into the jewellery's cost]. We are talking about rich NRIs for whom 25 lakhs is sometimes 10% their annual income [or even more]. And as you know, a medical graduation is amatter of status for a lot of people. Why wouldn't someone who buy a Mercedes for 35 lakhs pay 25 lakhs for a medical degree for his son/daughter? We are talking about rich NRIs and big shots here - not our next door neighbours. And a totally different question which I have always wanted to ask people who oppose reservation: Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5% reservation for Post-grad courses for Indian graduates - and they set the entry conditions for those seats to s
:~ My first post was not a serious one .I only intended to be funny..But I can see now that it touched your nerves:^).
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude?
I never meant it..not even in my distant dream.Infact I have made it clear in my first post itself .
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition
Socialism is a different issue but I am ready to discuss angels and hegel over here. Social upliftment of poor is indeed an issue,but I dont think reservation is the best way to ensure it.And infact,what we have gained so far out of this 50 year long reservation system.Why the government is so afraid to allocate a commission to investigate the effect of reservation in India. still we can see lot of children working in hotels and shops,and no body seems to be bothered about their lives,parents,home etc..why this is still happening..and if we are still formulating the solution on basis of caste ,we cannot solve these issues since its beyond caste equations... in 1947 ,We had clear problems related to caste and religion.so reservation in terms of caste was an unquestionable thing in the constitution then. But now the equations have been changed. There is no class in the country which is still remains supressed in terms of caste.We can omit Scheduled Tribes from this since they still need some sort of reservation.But OBC reservation is totally unwanted. According to the rule upto 14 years all children should get compulsory education .But its not happening. I am not agianst reservation.But in india the present form of reservation is a clear mockery towards the people. The deserving candidates are still out of the stream while others are excluded from the system. And consider the mental truama of a bright average forward caste student who feels like unwanted in his own country.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5%
Definitely I will..see, in India average yearly income of a citizen is still below 500 Rs and 52% of people are still below poverty line.So reservatios for one particular class which affects others
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
All the good nurses in Kerala (the state where this happened) are in the United States or in the Gulf countries
Though its fact ,i hope you would not have intended to say that India doesnt have good nurses
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Though its fact ,i hope you would not have intended to say that India doesnt have good nurses
India has good nurses - but a lot of the better ones are going abroad. Just like the software brain drain, we will eventually face a medical worker drain! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
:~ My first post was not a serious one .I only intended to be funny..But I can see now that it touched your nerves:^).
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude?
I never meant it..not even in my distant dream.Infact I have made it clear in my first post itself .
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition
Socialism is a different issue but I am ready to discuss angels and hegel over here. Social upliftment of poor is indeed an issue,but I dont think reservation is the best way to ensure it.And infact,what we have gained so far out of this 50 year long reservation system.Why the government is so afraid to allocate a commission to investigate the effect of reservation in India. still we can see lot of children working in hotels and shops,and no body seems to be bothered about their lives,parents,home etc..why this is still happening..and if we are still formulating the solution on basis of caste ,we cannot solve these issues since its beyond caste equations... in 1947 ,We had clear problems related to caste and religion.so reservation in terms of caste was an unquestionable thing in the constitution then. But now the equations have been changed. There is no class in the country which is still remains supressed in terms of caste.We can omit Scheduled Tribes from this since they still need some sort of reservation.But OBC reservation is totally unwanted. According to the rule upto 14 years all children should get compulsory education .But its not happening. I am not agianst reservation.But in india the present form of reservation is a clear mockery towards the people. The deserving candidates are still out of the stream while others are excluded from the system. And consider the mental truama of a bright average forward caste student who feels like unwanted in his own country.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5%
Definitely I will..see, in India average yearly income of a citizen is still below 500 Rs and 52% of people are still below poverty line.So reservatios for one particular class which affects others
jithAtran - ii wrote:
My first post was not a serious one .I only intended to be funny..
This was your first post: >>>if society started churning out doctors without considering the merit, more than this will happen. A doctor has to be an intelligent perosn where reservation system doesnt work for it.<<< I somehow failed to find the humor in it.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Social upliftment of poor is indeed an issue,but I dont think reservation is the best way to ensure it.
Reservation is meant for social upliftment of the socially backward - not for the poor!
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Why the government is so afraid to allocate a commission to investigate the effect of reservation in India.
There are two things here: 1. The efficiency of such an investigation: Even if you appoint a commission of lower caste officials to study the issue, a lot of input has to come from the various institutions headed by upper caste people who are trying to kill the reservation system. As with most probes in India [like CBI investigations and Revenue Departments investigating on bribe cases of politicians - you know what outcome to expect out of these namesake rituals that happen in our country], this will be kind of meaningless. 2. In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere and they have not been able to rise up in the bureaucracy. And based upon that, there were recommendations to improve the reservation system. In a state like Kerala where education and social life is uncomparably better than most other states in India [we are not talking about cities, we are talking about the state as a whole], if the situation is this worse, can't you imagine the situation in other states? Going back to point 1 above, when Narendarn commission did a study in Kerala, it was found later that a lot of institutions led by upper caste people gave false reports to hide the lack of proper reservation system implementation in their institutions.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
And consider the mental truama of a bright average forward caste student who feels like unwanted in his own country.
What about the ones who got opportunities? Are they all staying in their h
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
My first post was not a serious one .I only intended to be funny..
This was your first post: >>>if society started churning out doctors without considering the merit, more than this will happen. A doctor has to be an intelligent perosn where reservation system doesnt work for it.<<< I somehow failed to find the humor in it.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Social upliftment of poor is indeed an issue,but I dont think reservation is the best way to ensure it.
Reservation is meant for social upliftment of the socially backward - not for the poor!
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Why the government is so afraid to allocate a commission to investigate the effect of reservation in India.
There are two things here: 1. The efficiency of such an investigation: Even if you appoint a commission of lower caste officials to study the issue, a lot of input has to come from the various institutions headed by upper caste people who are trying to kill the reservation system. As with most probes in India [like CBI investigations and Revenue Departments investigating on bribe cases of politicians - you know what outcome to expect out of these namesake rituals that happen in our country], this will be kind of meaningless. 2. In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere and they have not been able to rise up in the bureaucracy. And based upon that, there were recommendations to improve the reservation system. In a state like Kerala where education and social life is uncomparably better than most other states in India [we are not talking about cities, we are talking about the state as a whole], if the situation is this worse, can't you imagine the situation in other states? Going back to point 1 above, when Narendarn commission did a study in Kerala, it was found later that a lot of institutions led by upper caste people gave false reports to hide the lack of proper reservation system implementation in their institutions.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
And consider the mental truama of a bright average forward caste student who feels like unwanted in his own country.
What about the ones who got opportunities? Are they all staying in their h
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude? In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son]. When you visit a foreign country, suppose someone looks at your face and tells you "Aren't you the kind of people who'd burn people and kids?", will you be okay with it? So even if that doc is a rservation candidate, no one has the right to criticise his community. There are hundred of docs who are drunkards or careless otherwise - who were meritorious students. We hear about lots of errors happening in our government hospitals and not all of it are done by lower caste doctors. Most of our plotical leaders take huge bribes, most of them, as a matter of fact, are from upper class communities - does that mean upper caste people are looters? Should we ban upper catse politicians and elect lower caste leaders so our nation can wipe out bribery?
jithAtran - ii wrote:
A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor.
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition [which might be half the amount your mother spends]. If you tell him about the jewellery expenses, he might think your mother's brain is made of clay, no offence meant, to spend so much money on something which isn't worth half the amount [considering the taxes and the making costs that go into the jewellery's cost]. We are talking about rich NRIs for whom 25 lakhs is sometimes 10% their annual income [or even more]. And as you know, a medical graduation is amatter of status for a lot of people. Why wouldn't someone who buy a Mercedes for 35 lakhs pay 25 lakhs for a medical degree for his son/daughter? We are talking about rich NRIs and big shots here - not our next door neighbours. And a totally different question which I have always wanted to ask people who oppose reservation: Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5% reservation for Post-grad courses for Indian graduates - and they set the entry conditions for those seats to s
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
Thanks Ankita for the correction. You are right, I got the two incidents mixed up! :-O The Missionary-related incident happened in Orissa and not Gujarat! Regards Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Smitha Vijayan wrote: An yet, our ministers insist in staying in 5 start hotels and getting treated in US hospitals. What are we doing about it? I asked you,Should we discuss communist manifesto here?
That is not communist manifesto. You might want to call it that way, but it's a form of unfairness existing in our country. Why is all the rage against reservation alone? Regards Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
ankita patel wrote:
He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965.
Tragic that someone who was helping out was murdered.
ankita patel wrote:
He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981.
On a side note, while his helpful attitude was good, the fact that part of his goal was to convert people to Christianity, kinda stains his record book. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
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jithAtran - ii wrote:
Smitha Vijayan wrote: An yet, our ministers insist in staying in 5 start hotels and getting treated in US hospitals. What are we doing about it? I asked you,Should we discuss communist manifesto here?
That is not communist manifesto. You might want to call it that way, but it's a form of unfairness existing in our country. Why is all the rage against reservation alone? Regards Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Why is all the rage against reservation alone?
It's probably the media that makes a big issue of reservation - it's an issue of course, but the media paints it as if it was more of a problem that it actually is. Also, the government's attempt to bring reservation to IIMs and IITs is not a good move at all! It would just destroy the reputations of those institutions. I've said this before, but for higher education (higher than +2), the govt should fund the education of reservation candidates in private colleges (with high fees). Thus merit-students do not lose seats. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward.
Human beings are intrinsically selfish - I think their behavior is natural. No one wants to lose something to anyone else :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
"there is clear inadequacy of backward communities in public services,
That was the part that I was referring to.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
It actually benifts to Muslims,backward christian communities and not OBCs
That is something to do with the way things are in Kerala. Christian farmers are the majority who do rubber farming. The ministry makes sure that rubber farmers get minimum price for their rubber produce all the time - no other farming sector gets as much attention as rubber. It's mostly religious Christian ministers who handle major departments in the state - so be it subsidies for farmers or alloting free forest land for cultivation, it's the Christian community who benefit the most. Very often we also have a huge number of Muslim ministers - and I personally know of cases where the ministers recommend Muslim candidates for the job openings under their departments. Have you observed that majority of officials in our nationalised banks are upper caste-Hindus? My fiend who works in a central government research agency told me how applications of lower caste candidates who apply for research opportunities go to the waste-bins, just like that. We can't mix these issues with the reservation issue. Regards, Smitha
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward.
Human beings are intrinsically selfish - I think their behavior is natural. No one wants to lose something to anyone else :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)True! :) Regards Smitha
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Thanks Ankita for the correction. You are right, I got the two incidents mixed up! :-O The Missionary-related incident happened in Orissa and not Gujarat! Regards Smitha
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Just wanted to point out the fact. Besides, on the issue of reservation, I see that you are very pro-reservation and you have your reasons. I have my reasons to oppose any further reservations (As I have said before, in the current situation we can't really just abolish the reservation at once, but need to work on it.). But just wanted to bring up a point that when you think about this issue you might be just considering the facts from kerala. But i think every state in india today has different level of situation regarding the reservation. Even if kerala has very high records in terms of literacy, overall southern india is more conservative when it comes to the caste system comapred to the northern india. again there are execptions like bihar and very internal villages of the northern india. Or may be my point of view is just based on what i have seen growing up. I think there is lot of unjust done based on economic background then caste, because of the corruption level. I was even amazed once, when my grandma (she is very old, conservation and illiterate), praised some guys from her village who did good music industry and where doing some social work in their village. They were from very lower caste and i beleive she even went to visit them once at their home. My point is, i haven't seen much discrimination done on the basis of the caste. Again it may be just the environment where i grew up. Ankita