Scissors removed from patient's stomach
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
My first post was not a serious one .I only intended to be funny..
This was your first post: >>>if society started churning out doctors without considering the merit, more than this will happen. A doctor has to be an intelligent perosn where reservation system doesnt work for it.<<< I somehow failed to find the humor in it.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Social upliftment of poor is indeed an issue,but I dont think reservation is the best way to ensure it.
Reservation is meant for social upliftment of the socially backward - not for the poor!
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Why the government is so afraid to allocate a commission to investigate the effect of reservation in India.
There are two things here: 1. The efficiency of such an investigation: Even if you appoint a commission of lower caste officials to study the issue, a lot of input has to come from the various institutions headed by upper caste people who are trying to kill the reservation system. As with most probes in India [like CBI investigations and Revenue Departments investigating on bribe cases of politicians - you know what outcome to expect out of these namesake rituals that happen in our country], this will be kind of meaningless. 2. In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere and they have not been able to rise up in the bureaucracy. And based upon that, there were recommendations to improve the reservation system. In a state like Kerala where education and social life is uncomparably better than most other states in India [we are not talking about cities, we are talking about the state as a whole], if the situation is this worse, can't you imagine the situation in other states? Going back to point 1 above, when Narendarn commission did a study in Kerala, it was found later that a lot of institutions led by upper caste people gave false reports to hide the lack of proper reservation system implementation in their institutions.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
And consider the mental truama of a bright average forward caste student who feels like unwanted in his own country.
What about the ones who got opportunities? Are they all staying in their h
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
and more people will come out of the hospital with scissors in their stomach (a bit cruel.I know)
Are you 100% sure that the doc who did this was a reservation candidate? Doesn't your unfair classification only reflect your racist attitude? In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son]. When you visit a foreign country, suppose someone looks at your face and tells you "Aren't you the kind of people who'd burn people and kids?", will you be okay with it? So even if that doc is a rservation candidate, no one has the right to criticise his community. There are hundred of docs who are drunkards or careless otherwise - who were meritorious students. We hear about lots of errors happening in our government hospitals and not all of it are done by lower caste doctors. Most of our plotical leaders take huge bribes, most of them, as a matter of fact, are from upper class communities - does that mean upper caste people are looters? Should we ban upper catse politicians and elect lower caste leaders so our nation can wipe out bribery?
jithAtran - ii wrote:
A father (unless his brian is made of clay) would not pay these much money for his below average son who can never become a good doctor.
Your mother prolly would spent INR 25000 a year [for example] without worries to buy gold jewellery, while your next door neighbour might be struggling to pay his kid's school tuition [which might be half the amount your mother spends]. If you tell him about the jewellery expenses, he might think your mother's brain is made of clay, no offence meant, to spend so much money on something which isn't worth half the amount [considering the taxes and the making costs that go into the jewellery's cost]. We are talking about rich NRIs for whom 25 lakhs is sometimes 10% their annual income [or even more]. And as you know, a medical graduation is amatter of status for a lot of people. Why wouldn't someone who buy a Mercedes for 35 lakhs pay 25 lakhs for a medical degree for his son/daughter? We are talking about rich NRIs and big shots here - not our next door neighbours. And a totally different question which I have always wanted to ask people who oppose reservation: Suppose Cambridge University starts a 5% reservation for Post-grad courses for Indian graduates - and they set the entry conditions for those seats to s
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
Thanks Ankita for the correction. You are right, I got the two incidents mixed up! :-O The Missionary-related incident happened in Orissa and not Gujarat! Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Smitha Vijayan wrote: An yet, our ministers insist in staying in 5 start hotels and getting treated in US hospitals. What are we doing about it? I asked you,Should we discuss communist manifesto here?
That is not communist manifesto. You might want to call it that way, but it's a form of unfairness existing in our country. Why is all the rage against reservation alone? Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In Gujarat, there was an incident once where a missionary was burned to death inside his car [along with his toddler son].
From wikipedia: Graham Stuart Staines(d. January 22, 1999) was an Australian missionary who was burnt alive while he was sleeping with his two sons Timothy (aged 9) and Philip (aged 7) in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India in January 1999. He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965. He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981. now during the same time, gujarat also was suffering from the communal violance, but the particular incident you quoted happened in orissa and not in gujarat. Graham staines wife stayed in orissa after his death till 2004. Whenever happened and whereever happened, it was a very sad incident. Just getting the facts straight. Ankita
ankita patel wrote:
He had been working in Orissa for the poor and especially for people suffering from leprosy since 1965.
Tragic that someone who was helping out was murdered.
ankita patel wrote:
He was well known and despised by many Hindu tribal leaders for converting many Hindus to Christianity. His wife Gladys had been working with him since 1981.
On a side note, while his helpful attitude was good, the fact that part of his goal was to convert people to Christianity, kinda stains his record book. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Smitha Vijayan wrote: An yet, our ministers insist in staying in 5 start hotels and getting treated in US hospitals. What are we doing about it? I asked you,Should we discuss communist manifesto here?
That is not communist manifesto. You might want to call it that way, but it's a form of unfairness existing in our country. Why is all the rage against reservation alone? Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Why is all the rage against reservation alone?
It's probably the media that makes a big issue of reservation - it's an issue of course, but the media paints it as if it was more of a problem that it actually is. Also, the government's attempt to bring reservation to IIMs and IITs is not a good move at all! It would just destroy the reputations of those institutions. I've said this before, but for higher education (higher than +2), the govt should fund the education of reservation candidates in private colleges (with high fees). Thus merit-students do not lose seats. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward.
Human beings are intrinsically selfish - I think their behavior is natural. No one wants to lose something to anyone else :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
What we need is an effective system of reservation - where the totally poor among the lower castes are brought forward in society.
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
In my state Kerala, there was one such commission appointed: Narendran commission. The results were shocking - even with so much reservations, lower caste people haven't reached anywhere
When did Justice K.K.Narendran expressed such a view Ifact this is the summary of his report The commission found that almost all the Backward Class communities in Kerala improved or were improving their presence in the public services through the system of reservation, and some have even managed to get jobs in excess of their reservation quota. It observed that, however, they still were not yet in a position to reach "adequacy of representation" without the continuance of reservation. It found that the representation of forward castes in public services "is of much less proportion", ranging between 36 per cent and 51 per cent of the total employees in the four categories of public services. The Backward Classes, on the other hand, collectively obtained a bigger share of the posts, their representation ranging from 41 per cent to 48 per cent. Hence in all the four categories, the Backward Classes as a whole secured employment in excess of their combined reservation quota of 40 per cent. However, the commission says that taken individually there are instances where Backward Class communities hold posts substantially fewer in number than their individual reservation quota, or where they have obtained posts in excess of the reservation quota only marginally, or where they have got jobs substantially in excess of their quota (though this is not the general pattern). Thus, according to the commission, "there is cle
jithAtran - ii wrote:
"there is clear inadequacy of backward communities in public services,
That was the part that I was referring to.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
It actually benifts to Muslims,backward christian communities and not OBCs
That is something to do with the way things are in Kerala. Christian farmers are the majority who do rubber farming. The ministry makes sure that rubber farmers get minimum price for their rubber produce all the time - no other farming sector gets as much attention as rubber. It's mostly religious Christian ministers who handle major departments in the state - so be it subsidies for farmers or alloting free forest land for cultivation, it's the Christian community who benefit the most. Very often we also have a huge number of Muslim ministers - and I personally know of cases where the ministers recommend Muslim candidates for the job openings under their departments. Have you observed that majority of officials in our nationalised banks are upper caste-Hindus? My fiend who works in a central government research agency told me how applications of lower caste candidates who apply for research opportunities go to the waste-bins, just like that. We can't mix these issues with the reservation issue. Regards, Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward.
Human beings are intrinsically selfish - I think their behavior is natural. No one wants to lose something to anyone else :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)True! :) Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
Thanks Ankita for the correction. You are right, I got the two incidents mixed up! :-O The Missionary-related incident happened in Orissa and not Gujarat! Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Just wanted to point out the fact. Besides, on the issue of reservation, I see that you are very pro-reservation and you have your reasons. I have my reasons to oppose any further reservations (As I have said before, in the current situation we can't really just abolish the reservation at once, but need to work on it.). But just wanted to bring up a point that when you think about this issue you might be just considering the facts from kerala. But i think every state in india today has different level of situation regarding the reservation. Even if kerala has very high records in terms of literacy, overall southern india is more conservative when it comes to the caste system comapred to the northern india. again there are execptions like bihar and very internal villages of the northern india. Or may be my point of view is just based on what i have seen growing up. I think there is lot of unjust done based on economic background then caste, because of the corruption level. I was even amazed once, when my grandma (she is very old, conservation and illiterate), praised some guys from her village who did good music industry and where doing some social work in their village. They were from very lower caste and i beleive she even went to visit them once at their home. My point is, i haven't seen much discrimination done on the basis of the caste. Again it may be just the environment where i grew up. Ankita
-
Just wanted to point out the fact. Besides, on the issue of reservation, I see that you are very pro-reservation and you have your reasons. I have my reasons to oppose any further reservations (As I have said before, in the current situation we can't really just abolish the reservation at once, but need to work on it.). But just wanted to bring up a point that when you think about this issue you might be just considering the facts from kerala. But i think every state in india today has different level of situation regarding the reservation. Even if kerala has very high records in terms of literacy, overall southern india is more conservative when it comes to the caste system comapred to the northern india. again there are execptions like bihar and very internal villages of the northern india. Or may be my point of view is just based on what i have seen growing up. I think there is lot of unjust done based on economic background then caste, because of the corruption level. I was even amazed once, when my grandma (she is very old, conservation and illiterate), praised some guys from her village who did good music industry and where doing some social work in their village. They were from very lower caste and i beleive she even went to visit them once at their home. My point is, i haven't seen much discrimination done on the basis of the caste. Again it may be just the environment where i grew up. Ankita
ankita patel wrote:
Again it may be just the environment where i grew up.
Probably. In Kerala, there's a lot of caste-based hostility. Despite the high literacy rate! Tragedy really. Even now, an inter-caste marriage is frowned upon. And inter-religious marriages result in total havoc from the two families involved. My sister's Muslim classmate was virtually forced to marry someone against her wishes - she was locked in her room for 2 weeks prior to the marriage, and she was told that if she didn't agree, her Christian lover would be killed - imagine her dad telling her, he'd murder her lover if she refused to comply with the bridegroom he chose for her. And all people involved were educated people with good jobs. So, it's really bad here. And based on what I have read, it's not much better elsewhere. I have a different take on handling reservation. Instead of reserving seats, I'd like to see lower-caste people get a lot of financial advantages, money grants, zero-interest car loans, half-rate taxes, sponsorship for foreign education etc. That way, the meritorious candidates can do what they want - while the lower-caste folks can get up socially. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
ankita patel wrote:
Again it may be just the environment where i grew up.
Probably. In Kerala, there's a lot of caste-based hostility. Despite the high literacy rate! Tragedy really. Even now, an inter-caste marriage is frowned upon. And inter-religious marriages result in total havoc from the two families involved. My sister's Muslim classmate was virtually forced to marry someone against her wishes - she was locked in her room for 2 weeks prior to the marriage, and she was told that if she didn't agree, her Christian lover would be killed - imagine her dad telling her, he'd murder her lover if she refused to comply with the bridegroom he chose for her. And all people involved were educated people with good jobs. So, it's really bad here. And based on what I have read, it's not much better elsewhere. I have a different take on handling reservation. Instead of reserving seats, I'd like to see lower-caste people get a lot of financial advantages, money grants, zero-interest car loans, half-rate taxes, sponsorship for foreign education etc. That way, the meritorious candidates can do what they want - while the lower-caste folks can get up socially. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I have a different take on handling reservation. Instead of reserving seats, I'd like to see lower-caste people get a lot of financial advantages, money grants, zero-interest car loans, half-rate taxes, sponsorship for foreign education etc. That way, the meritorious candidates can do what they want - while the lower-caste folks can get up socially.
completely agree and it would be even nicer if it's done based on monetary situation then the caste. I wish that people on both side and politicians give rest to the reservation issue at this point and start looking at the real solutions. I see more people against each other on the basis of caste now then before, which is just shame. :rose: Ankita
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
Why is all the rage against reservation alone?
It's probably the media that makes a big issue of reservation - it's an issue of course, but the media paints it as if it was more of a problem that it actually is. Also, the government's attempt to bring reservation to IIMs and IITs is not a good move at all! It would just destroy the reputations of those institutions. I've said this before, but for higher education (higher than +2), the govt should fund the education of reservation candidates in private colleges (with high fees). Thus merit-students do not lose seats. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
It's probably the media that makes a big issue of reservation - it's an issue of course, but the media paints it as if it was more of a problem that it actually is.
Though AIIMS students got some support by the media and intelligentsia,they failed to get support in politics.There was no single party to say anything against the proposed 27% reservation.And AIIMS students did very well know that they were fighting a battele where they would surely be defeated.Atleast they have got an assurance from the HRD minister that no one will be penalised due to reservation(I dont know how this is going to happen). Coming back to politics ,most of the parties are dominated by minorities and OBCs and even a partylike BJP who stood against V.P.singh's mandal propsal is now supporting the present proposal.We dont need any extra glasses to see the votebank behind their decsion.And its hard to believe that though it has leaders like Arun shourie(He was the superstar of anti Mandal-1 agitations through his columns in Indian Express) who holds a great tradition for fighting against the reservation system BJP supports this.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Also, the government's attempt to bring reservation to IIMs and IITs is not a good move at all! It would just destroy the reputations of those institutions.
Yeah ..You have to understand, Thats the whole issue now. And I am sure that your suggestins for improving the reservation system definetly will not get acceptance among Indian politicians(particlarly DMK and parties from Tamilnadu,SP,BSP,RJD).But They may try to make the reservation to 75 % after some time.
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
This was your first post: >>>if society started churning out doctors without considering the merit, more than this will happen. A doctor has to be an intelligent perosn where reservation system doesnt work for it.<<< I somehow failed to find the humor in it.
My reply was to Nish and we had clearly discussed the Issue earlier.So never expected that he will reply me with counter arguments since he knows my stand very well. But to my surprise the whole family started attacking me:omg:.But I should admit that you have put forward some good points though it wouldnt affect my opinion.
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
"there is clear inadequacy of backward communities in public services,
That was the part that I was referring to.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
It actually benifts to Muslims,backward christian communities and not OBCs
That is something to do with the way things are in Kerala. Christian farmers are the majority who do rubber farming. The ministry makes sure that rubber farmers get minimum price for their rubber produce all the time - no other farming sector gets as much attention as rubber. It's mostly religious Christian ministers who handle major departments in the state - so be it subsidies for farmers or alloting free forest land for cultivation, it's the Christian community who benefit the most. Very often we also have a huge number of Muslim ministers - and I personally know of cases where the ministers recommend Muslim candidates for the job openings under their departments. Have you observed that majority of officials in our nationalised banks are upper caste-Hindus? My fiend who works in a central government research agency told me how applications of lower caste candidates who apply for research opportunities go to the waste-bins, just like that. We can't mix these issues with the reservation issue. Regards, Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Muslims are not continuing the education.and its clear that in whole india the number of muslims seen in public services are comparatively lesser. Now are you intended to say that Narendran commission report is fallacious. It would be misleading when you say that uppaer caste officials are trying to hijack the reservation system since politically they suerly wont get support.They know very well that its impossible. And in public service the proportion of upper caste hindus is clearly lower than that of lower castes
-
jithAtran - ii wrote:
Thats what I said,the present format of reservation is absolutely ineffective and You can just think the effect of reserving 49.5%(Again I said It is all that Percentage is the matter) seats in premier institutes. I have made it clear that I am not aginst the reservation for STs but there are lot of undeserving castes came up under the OBC and SC section due to politics.In tamilnadu the forward caste people are virtually out of the government jobs.In bihar lots of castes have been included in the OBC section.In U.P ,obviously you can imagine whatever the things can be done by OBC dominated parties like SP and BSP.
So you agree to the fact that reservation is actaully good, and what is bad is the way it is implemented now? A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it. It seems like they just don't bother about the socially backward. Regards Smitha
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
A lot of people who oppose reservation now are opposing it blindly - even if a good implementation of the reservation system is promised, they will still oppose it
Shall I correct it in this way.. A lot of people who suppor reservation now are supporting it blindly - even without considering that the agitation is against the huge 27% reservation of OBCs which would result in the total elimination of forward caste people from all faces, they will still oppose the agitation.
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
Well, some of those bugs, most notably on chemotherapy machines a few years ago, have killed people because the operator entered a sequence of commands that inadvertently (read "bug") caused the patients to receive maximum dosages.
Are you serious, did that really happened?
**You know you're obsessed with computer graphics when you're outside and you look up at the trees and think, "Wow! That's spectacular resolution!"
** -
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
This was your first post: >>>if society started churning out doctors without considering the merit, more than this will happen. A doctor has to be an intelligent perosn where reservation system doesnt work for it.<<< I somehow failed to find the humor in it.
My reply was to Nish and we had clearly discussed the Issue earlier.So never expected that he will reply me with counter arguments since he knows my stand very well. But to my surprise the whole family started attacking me:omg:.But I should admit that you have put forward some good points though it wouldnt affect my opinion.
jithAtran - ii wrote:
But to my surprise the whole family started attacking me
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
-
Muslims are not continuing the education.and its clear that in whole india the number of muslims seen in public services are comparatively lesser. Now are you intended to say that Narendran commission report is fallacious. It would be misleading when you say that uppaer caste officials are trying to hijack the reservation system since politically they suerly wont get support.They know very well that its impossible. And in public service the proportion of upper caste hindus is clearly lower than that of lower castes
jithAtran - ii wrote:
n whole india the number of muslims seen in public services are comparatively lesser.
I was talking about the situation in Kerala, where the number is on the increase due to undue influence by the Muslim political parties.
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...