Visual Basic .NET Experiences
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It is when using ReSharper :)
Cool! Thank you, now I have another trial software on my computer :) Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
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I feel your pain. I'm forced to use VB.NET too, and always have to fight against my instinct to press return when trying to use intellisense autocomplete. But I have to say I absolutely love on-the-fly compilation. It's so much useful when you are fixing some tool generated code: you spot the error, fix it and even without saving you see the error underlined. Eclipse for Java has it too. I wish it was available in C#... Luca The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.
I wish I was using VB 2005 rather than .NET though because the DevExpress refactoring plug-in is ace - better than C#'s built-in refactoring. However, they will be moving to 2005 soon where I work. But the catch is I'm a contractor, so no gurantee I'll still be there when they do.:(( Though there's a possibility that the next project I may be working on will start with 2005 - if they keep me. The existing projects which all run inside a shell application are all ASP.NET 1.1, and we're having difficulty trying to upgrade them.:mad: Kevin
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Super Lloyd wrote:
Perhaps the service pack will fix that (in a few month...)
I love how optimistic programmers are in the face of continual disappointment. Coming here always brightens my day. :)
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Wasn't SP1 for VS 2003 due two weeks ago? Though admittedly it was an estimated date so they have a get-out! Kevin
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In the past few months I have been using VB .NET after having mostly used C# since .NET was released. Many people at codeproject have a viseceral hatred of all things VB. Although I have historically been primarily a C++ developer I do not share this hatred. I do share a preference for C# over VB in the .NET environment but I've found VB qua coding to be OK. What I've found the most irritating though is the behaviour of the IDE for VB compared to C#. Intellisense for C# is more streamlined than for VB. This is even more so in 2005. There is no obvious reason why this should be so. Dev teams not talking to each other perhaps? In VB, Regions aren't indented to the level of the code. In C# they are. In VB, toggling expansion of regions doesn't expand all regions. In C# they do. Split screen causes you to lose your position in VB, in C# it doesn't. In 2005 C# intellisense is streamlined, in VB it isn't. In C# code snippets, pressing return after filling in the snippets, clears the highlights and leaves you in a sensible place. In VB, the highlights remain until you close the file, and pressing return breaks the current line. (It's easier to invoke snippets via intellisense in C# too.) However, when using VB DevExpress refactoring, VB editing behaves as desired. Why don't the VB team just copy them? I find these differences in behaviour far more irritating than the syntactical differences between VB and C#. What do others think? I'd like to hear from those who've used both C# and VB .NET in anger. Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
What do others think?
For me,it has nothing to do with functionality, it is all: SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX I purely hate any BASIC syntax language. Does nto matter if it is VBA, QBASIC, MS BASIC! I am from old school and first learned on BASIC. After spending years in BASIC and then other langauges, I finally migrated to C (where I was totally lost for a while. They could actually make VB more powerful, faster, more feature rich than C# or other variants and I would still not use it. I am OLD and not as flexible as in my younger days. Now if I do not like something I raise a stink, gripe, moan and complain :) Rocky <>< Latest Post: Visual Studio 2005 Standard, whats missing? Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
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In the past few months I have been using VB .NET after having mostly used C# since .NET was released. Many people at codeproject have a viseceral hatred of all things VB. Although I have historically been primarily a C++ developer I do not share this hatred. I do share a preference for C# over VB in the .NET environment but I've found VB qua coding to be OK. What I've found the most irritating though is the behaviour of the IDE for VB compared to C#. Intellisense for C# is more streamlined than for VB. This is even more so in 2005. There is no obvious reason why this should be so. Dev teams not talking to each other perhaps? In VB, Regions aren't indented to the level of the code. In C# they are. In VB, toggling expansion of regions doesn't expand all regions. In C# they do. Split screen causes you to lose your position in VB, in C# it doesn't. In 2005 C# intellisense is streamlined, in VB it isn't. In C# code snippets, pressing return after filling in the snippets, clears the highlights and leaves you in a sensible place. In VB, the highlights remain until you close the file, and pressing return breaks the current line. (It's easier to invoke snippets via intellisense in C# too.) However, when using VB DevExpress refactoring, VB editing behaves as desired. Why don't the VB team just copy them? I find these differences in behaviour far more irritating than the syntactical differences between VB and C#. What do others think? I'd like to hear from those who've used both C# and VB .NET in anger. Kevin
Most people using VB will avoid writing any code at all costs, so the work probably went into making the designer better. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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In the past few months I have been using VB .NET after having mostly used C# since .NET was released. Many people at codeproject have a viseceral hatred of all things VB. Although I have historically been primarily a C++ developer I do not share this hatred. I do share a preference for C# over VB in the .NET environment but I've found VB qua coding to be OK. What I've found the most irritating though is the behaviour of the IDE for VB compared to C#. Intellisense for C# is more streamlined than for VB. This is even more so in 2005. There is no obvious reason why this should be so. Dev teams not talking to each other perhaps? In VB, Regions aren't indented to the level of the code. In C# they are. In VB, toggling expansion of regions doesn't expand all regions. In C# they do. Split screen causes you to lose your position in VB, in C# it doesn't. In 2005 C# intellisense is streamlined, in VB it isn't. In C# code snippets, pressing return after filling in the snippets, clears the highlights and leaves you in a sensible place. In VB, the highlights remain until you close the file, and pressing return breaks the current line. (It's easier to invoke snippets via intellisense in C# too.) However, when using VB DevExpress refactoring, VB editing behaves as desired. Why don't the VB team just copy them? I find these differences in behaviour far more irritating than the syntactical differences between VB and C#. What do others think? I'd like to hear from those who've used both C# and VB .NET in anger. Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
In 2005 C# intellisense is streamlined, in VB it isn't. In C# code snippets, pressing return after filling in the snippets, clears the highlights and leaves you in a sensible place. In VB, the highlights remain until you close the file, and pressing return breaks the current line.
As CG stated, it's quite likely a lot more work went into the designer than went into the editor. This is nothing new - think back to VB6, where the form designer and object browser were considerably better than those found in other IDEs, but the editor lacked many features considered standard in basic text editors.
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
What do others think?
For me,it has nothing to do with functionality, it is all: SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX I purely hate any BASIC syntax language. Does nto matter if it is VBA, QBASIC, MS BASIC! I am from old school and first learned on BASIC. After spending years in BASIC and then other langauges, I finally migrated to C (where I was totally lost for a while. They could actually make VB more powerful, faster, more feature rich than C# or other variants and I would still not use it. I am OLD and not as flexible as in my younger days. Now if I do not like something I raise a stink, gripe, moan and complain :) Rocky <>< Latest Post: Visual Studio 2005 Standard, whats missing? Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
Rocky Moore wrote:
For me,it has nothing to do with functionality, it is all: SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX SYNTAX
I'm OK with the syntax.
Rocky Moore wrote:
I finally migrated to C
The C-family syntax is actually quite poor, although C# and Java are OK. I think C-style syntax was good historically, given C's roots as a high-level assembler but it is lame for new languages such as Java and C# to follow it. The best syntax I've seen so far in high-level languages is Eiffel's. It strikes the write balance between readability (and cocnceptual clarity) and conciseness. Less wordy than VB or Pascal, more readable than the C-family. But unfortunately Eiffel has miniscule usage. Kevin
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Most people using VB will avoid writing any code at all costs, so the work probably went into making the designer better. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
Most people using VB will avoid writing any code at all costs, so the work probably went into making the designer better.
wtf?!?!? I've gotta say, i'm getting fed up with people grouping all VB.Net programmers into the category of "drag-and-drop programmers" just because VB6 allowed this approach! Besides, the VS designer is a function of the IDE, not the language itself - as is intellisense. I prefer to rely on my own code than any designer. I know C# and VB.Net equally well, but i prefer to code in VB.net because it is so much more readable. My personal preference. The .Net CLR provides pretty much the same capabilitys for each, so at the end of the day it comes down to just that - personal preference. To all those who bag VB based on experiences with VB6 - try VB.Net, its one hell of an improvement. Of course, if you're just dead set against the syntax of it you won't be any more impressed. Oh, and yeah Visual Studio isn't as well refined for VB.Net as it is for C#, but thats not a reflection on the language itself, rather it reflects Microsofts intention to push C# above VB. You can hardly judge a language based on the IDE alone! nicko A Strong VB.Net proponent
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Christian Graus wrote:
Most people using VB will avoid writing any code at all costs, so the work probably went into making the designer better.
wtf?!?!? I've gotta say, i'm getting fed up with people grouping all VB.Net programmers into the category of "drag-and-drop programmers" just because VB6 allowed this approach! Besides, the VS designer is a function of the IDE, not the language itself - as is intellisense. I prefer to rely on my own code than any designer. I know C# and VB.Net equally well, but i prefer to code in VB.net because it is so much more readable. My personal preference. The .Net CLR provides pretty much the same capabilitys for each, so at the end of the day it comes down to just that - personal preference. To all those who bag VB based on experiences with VB6 - try VB.Net, its one hell of an improvement. Of course, if you're just dead set against the syntax of it you won't be any more impressed. Oh, and yeah Visual Studio isn't as well refined for VB.Net as it is for C#, but thats not a reflection on the language itself, rather it reflects Microsofts intention to push C# above VB. You can hardly judge a language based on the IDE alone! nicko A Strong VB.Net proponent
nicko wrote:
just because VB6 allowed this approach
I think that VS2005 allows.encourages it a lot more. Perhaps it's just the peope asking questions on the MSDN forums who are horrified when asked to write code, I admit that is probalby true.
nicko wrote:
The .Net CLR provides pretty much the same capabilitys for each, so at the end of the day it comes down to just that - personal preference.
This is close to correct, I'd say for most people, either language will do.
nicko wrote:
Of course, if you're just dead set against the syntax of it you won't be any more impressed.
Yes, I confess to hating the syntax.
nicko wrote:
rather it reflects Microsofts intention to push C# above VB.
It's amusing to me that both camps seem to feel that the other is getting more attention from Microsoft :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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nicko wrote:
just because VB6 allowed this approach
I think that VS2005 allows.encourages it a lot more. Perhaps it's just the peope asking questions on the MSDN forums who are horrified when asked to write code, I admit that is probalby true.
nicko wrote:
The .Net CLR provides pretty much the same capabilitys for each, so at the end of the day it comes down to just that - personal preference.
This is close to correct, I'd say for most people, either language will do.
nicko wrote:
Of course, if you're just dead set against the syntax of it you won't be any more impressed.
Yes, I confess to hating the syntax.
nicko wrote:
rather it reflects Microsofts intention to push C# above VB.
It's amusing to me that both camps seem to feel that the other is getting more attention from Microsoft :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
It's amusing to me that both camps seem to feel that the other is getting more attention from Microsoft
By and large C# seems to be favoured in terms of IDE usability and tools (such as refactoring). But many complain that there are too many examples in VB .NET! I've not noticed this myself. However, IMO, whether you choose C# or VB, you should be comfortable with both syntaxes, i.e., in terms of being able to read the code. Kevin
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
In 2005 C# intellisense is streamlined, in VB it isn't. In C# code snippets, pressing return after filling in the snippets, clears the highlights and leaves you in a sensible place. In VB, the highlights remain until you close the file, and pressing return breaks the current line.
As CG stated, it's quite likely a lot more work went into the designer than went into the editor. This is nothing new - think back to VB6, where the form designer and object browser were considerably better than those found in other IDEs, but the editor lacked many features considered standard in basic text editors.
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Hi, Shog. :) VB6 wasn't all that bad for coding. It was a marked improvement over VB 4 and VB 5, and let's not forget the horror that was VB 3... I admit since .NET, I haven't done much VB programming. Mostly because the syntax is somewhat more wordy than C#. However, I prefer the string manipulation functions of VB (Left, Right, Mid, etc.), so there are times I will code things in VB. And it's nice to know both languages when converting VB.NET samples to C#. :-D Flynn