Java IDE's?
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X| if only you could knew what we do with java !!!
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
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toxcct wrote:
if only you could knew what we do with java !!!
Bull. I've worked with Java devs before. J2EE/Java is no more feature rich than .NET and yet it manages to be 20 times slower. Jeremy Falcon
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FYI: Borland is basing their next JBuilder on Eclipse.
This reminds me of the Queen song, Another one bites the dust.
Formula 1 - Short for "F1 Racing" - named after the standard "help" key in Windows, it's a sport where participants desperately search through software help files trying to find actual documentation. It's tedious and somewhat cruel, most matches ending in a draw as no participant is able to find anything helpful. - Shog9 Ed
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led mike wrote:
Yes Java is slow, if you are going to work with it, get over it.
From http://www.cutthecrap.biz/software/whitepapers/history.html[^] "Enter Java My first java project involved persistent knowledge representation. The idea was to build a persistent system that mapped to a relational database, and allowed convenient navigation of knowledge structures. That was fine in itself, but I was keen to convert my C++ system to see how much slower java was. It was just an exercise, I had no expectation that the system would be usable. It didn't take long, and I was hugely surprised at the performance I got from java. Wow! At last a system with automatic memory management that I may be allowed to use commercially! It may be sad, but I was really excited. After a few weeks I could demonstrate that my native java persistent object system had far better performance than one based on a relational database. We continued developing java systems for a couple of years and then the team folded. At this point I began developing the Cut The Crap Software." Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
After a few weeks I could demonstrate that my native java persistent object system had far better performance than one based on a relational database.
Great, I can demonstrate that apples are shinier than oranges, so what? :confused:
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
After a few weeks I could demonstrate that my native java persistent object system had far better performance than one based on a relational database.
Great, I can demonstrate that apples are shinier than oranges, so what? :confused:
The point of the story is that this guy had a preconception that the Java implementation of his design must be slow but he was surprised that it wasn't. I think that what's going on in such cases is that the facility of creating a superior design/implementation trumps raw speed. I've had two interviews recently where my interviewer had told me that they had an application recoded in C# from C++ and found the C# version to be faster. Kevin
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
Roger J wrote:
What other IDE's are there for java
Go to Oracle's web site. You will need to register yourself with them. And download their free offerings - some are large downloads - some you may order on cd/dvd - for a variety of products including JDeveloper, and their free database. While you are there download their free tutorials and check out their Oracle University. Their offerings are such you could spend all week long there.
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
Well it was writen in Java... The tigress is here :-D
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
i did some dev in java a while back. i have not checked out eclipse. we used borland jbuilder. i dind't like jbuilder because it was too complex to manage simple projects. i really liked using intellij idea. google it and then check it out. it's from the same guys that give us resharper. it's great. my $.02 G-
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It's been years since I turned my back on Java, but when I was using is I was using a free IDE called Forte. I remember it being good, but I think I remember if being more like the Delphi 4 IDE then the VS IDE. Might be worth googling it to see if it's still around...
- Dy
NetBeans IDE[^] was marketed by Sun as "Forté for Java" for a while before it was open-sourced. http://www.netbeans.org/about/history.html[^]
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
For a faster IDE you might try out JCreator. It works pretty fine with low-end systems, and its hugely customizable. But ofcourse you wont get the functionality of VS.Net automatically. You can perhaps tweak JCreator to get closer performance to that of VS.Net. Another drawback was (when I was using JCreator) that there was no functionality to create forms. So we had to build the forms in slower JBuilder and port them on to JCreator, which carried it pretty fine. But... Notepad could be even better :-D uX marks the spot
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
There is a battle brewing here at my office between .NET and Java. We have a VoIP developer that insists I learn Java. He swears by it. Of course most of his stuff is written in native C++ though and he uses VS 2003 for that. I do have a $3500 copy of Borland's JBuilder but haven't even installed it yet. I use VS 2005 to develop all my new stuff. "Half this game is ninety percent mental." - Yogi Berra If you can read thank a teacher, if you can read in English, thank a Marine. M y and h don't work so well due to m addiction to caffeine and m in abilit to to set a cup down uprigt.
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The point of the story is that this guy had a preconception that the Java implementation of his design must be slow but he was surprised that it wasn't. I think that what's going on in such cases is that the facility of creating a superior design/implementation trumps raw speed. I've had two interviews recently where my interviewer had told me that they had an application recoded in C# from C++ and found the C# version to be faster. Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The point of the story
Well the story is poor because the comparison is completely flawed. The history of benchmarking Java vs. C++ is inconclusive at best. This likely means the difference when making "valid" comparisons is small. Back in 2000 we built a proprietary Application Server in Java (don't ask why :-D). We have nothing to compare it with but we ran it in some Intel Labs back in 2000 and it performed like a champ and has been these past 6 years. My comment about Java being slow was directed toward its application in GUIs. They are notoriously slow. I have worked with C# for about two years now. While I have not done any comparison based analysis it does not seem to have obvious performance problems. However, I don't have an URL for you but, there is an MSDN article that talks about the 2.0 JIT compiler being built by the C++ compiler team and partially because of that Managed C++ has the capacity to produce faster executable results.
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
My little company develops Java under the latest version of Eclipse. It is pretty great, as is VS 2005, but Eclipse excels in different ways. If you are looking for a clone of VS for Java development you are probably going to be disappointed. I am going to try and re-pitch Eclipse to you :-) I would contrast Eclipse and VS by saying that VS emphasizes polish and solidity, while Eclipse emphasizes feature richness and extensability. I find that VS has very clean, obvious work flows, while Eclipse is more opaque but has loads of little features and knobs, some of which are a kind of odd. To pick a couple of specific examples: First, the VS C# code formatting and coloring is still painfully basic -- my 12-yr old emacs config is still far more capable. But the Eclipse for Java is the first IDE I have found whose code formatting and coloring capabilities exceed emacs'. As a second example of the IDE contrast, the VS project management and external source code control plugin system are all-around excellent, while these functions under Eclipse are kind of wierd and clunky. In these two examples, clearly Eclipse team cares deeply about the the joy of beautiful code, while the VS team cares deeply about developer producivity. As for alternative IDEs, I tried Netbeans, but IMO it really doesn't stack up to Eclipse, except in Swing GUI layout. IntelliJ IDEA is highly rated, but it costs $, so for a hobby it may not meet your needs. Really for Java you are looking at Eclipse. Regards, Doug
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The point of the story
Well the story is poor because the comparison is completely flawed. The history of benchmarking Java vs. C++ is inconclusive at best. This likely means the difference when making "valid" comparisons is small. Back in 2000 we built a proprietary Application Server in Java (don't ask why :-D). We have nothing to compare it with but we ran it in some Intel Labs back in 2000 and it performed like a champ and has been these past 6 years. My comment about Java being slow was directed toward its application in GUIs. They are notoriously slow. I have worked with C# for about two years now. While I have not done any comparison based analysis it does not seem to have obvious performance problems. However, I don't have an URL for you but, there is an MSDN article that talks about the 2.0 JIT compiler being built by the C++ compiler team and partially because of that Managed C++ has the capacity to produce faster executable results.
led mike wrote:
My comment about Java being slow was directed toward its application in GUIs. They are notoriously slow.
OK. :) That guy, who's a friend of mine, is not using Java in that way. Not that I really understand what he's doing!:confused: He's way more capable and experienced than I am. Kevin
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? 3 great Java IDES are 1. Sun NetBeans IDE (free, os) - http://www.netbeans.org/ 2. IBM Eclipse (free, os) - http://www.eclipse.org/ 3. JetBrains IntelliJ Idea (commercial) http://www.jetbrains.com/ As for speed, maybe you have a very small (less than 512 MB) RAM? I recommend at least 768 (3x256), or better 1 GB for comfortable C# and Java development.
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
Hi, have you tried Netbeans at all? I personally like it better than eclipse as it does not have that "doesn't feel right" (yes, the feeling existed for me too... :doh: ) Go to http://www.netbeans.org[^]
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
Yes, Java w a s slow, but it isn't anymore. I've developed Java Applications the last 5 years, since JDK 1.3 until 1.5 and there where a lot of improvements especially what relates performance. Java just had to solve the problems you have with every new language. And from the object oriented programming point of view the developers of Java have done a very good job. Don't misunderstand me, i know C/C++ as well as Java and there are issues i would always prefer C/C++ above Java, e. g. for os and driver programming. But i think it's simply not right to blame any language for bad performance etc. Every programming language has it's pros and cons and areas where it rules. To answer your question from the start. Eclipse is the best IDE for Java around. period. Besides it you could try the NetBeans project from SUN or use the good'ol vi editor and ant/maven for making a nice build environment. cu/walter
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
Ignoring all of the ignorant comments that have been made about Java, We tend to like netbeans a bit better than eclipse. It has, in the past, had a better response than eclipse, even if you sacrifice all of the plug-ins. As far as the anti-Java comments, I have used Microsoft libraries and APIs from MFC through .NET 2.0, and I have used Java for years. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. The technology for each is actually comparable in speed (Especially with JIT compilers) for desktop applications, and also in feature richness. I have found that the Java APIs make more logical sense than the Microsoft APIs (and don't say you have to understand the Microsoft way! I should be able to do what I need by reading the documentation, not trying to figure out how something works!). The other advantage Java has is that serious consideration was given by Sun to supporting multiple computing platforms. They have distributions for Windows, Linux and UNIX systems. All you have for .NET on Linux or UNIX is open source implementations. While these are high quality, it seems that Java is the only true Write Once Run Anywhere system. To use .NET you have to crawl into bed with the evil empire :-). Personally, I've seen Return of the Jedi, and I want to be on the side of the Alliance ;-)
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com
try NetBeans IDE from www.netbeans.org IE
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Ive decided to try a bit of java (for no reason what so ever , just bored) Ive tried eclipse, which seems to have a shitload of good features, but for some reason it doesnt feel right, I cant put my finger on it but it feels kind of slow'ish and menus flips and flops all over the place. What other IDE's are there for java and is there anyone of those which feels atleast a bit like VS.NET ? //Roger http://www.puzzleframework.com